BC's

Billy's Substitute WTJ Forum


You are not connected. Please login or register

Playing around with binary and tertiary

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:12 pm

http://soundcloud.com/ndolp

Changing around between triplets feel (tertiary) and straight eight feel is really challenging, but makes up a lot of new ground...how do you approach this and practice it?

Best
Niki



Last edited by Niki on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user profile http://myspace.com/nikidolp

2 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:07 pm

Can't access the file, Niki.

I have a feeling you're talking about the magic of 6/8, an area I'd like to learn more about . . . like this tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dPb5a1NjI8

Or maybe you're talking about switching/leveling a waltz with an eight note pulse, an area I'm growing in . . . at least trying to . . .



Last edited by woofus on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream23

3 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:24 pm

Hey woof!
I edited the link, now it should work!
I don't mean like changing meters, but changing around from a triplet feel to a straight feel. Which means basically changing around between triplets and 8th / 16th notes. I (try) to do that on the songs you can hear on soundcloud.
Really cool music you got there woof, cool playing and composition!!! That's a nice sounding ride cymbal you have there! The band is swinging!!! There's some of the stuff happening I'm talking about - but it's more in the context of the composition!

View user profile http://myspace.com/nikidolp

4 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:30 pm

"switching/leveling a waltz with an eight note pulse"

I think that's a better explanation of what I'm trying to say! cheers

View user profile http://myspace.com/nikidolp

5 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:44 pm

Thanks, Niki, I was editing my reply while you replied and took off that link when I realized what you must have been talking about. That's a 1987 Paiste 20" Rude. Anyway, checking out your stuff now, sounds really wonderful. I don't think I'm qualified to comment!

But I do know it's all about what sounds good in context. Sometimes I accentuate the triplet and then listen back to a recording and cringe because it sounded so terrible and needed to be leveled off with 8th notes. And then sometimes it's just the opposite. This is some complex stuff you're presenting; I'm gonna have to take a few more listens, but really enjoying it, especially the first track. Having no problem with your choices.

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream23

6 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:31 am

Hey woof, thanks for listening! I think changing between the different levels around really opens up the whole thing and 6/8 is perfect for it..I also like that song "Poem I(February)" written by our saxophonist...its a nice band called "Double Reed Quartet" with just two horns (alternating between alto saxophone and soprano sax) , acoustic bass and drums.
I wonder how others approach the idea of binary and tertiary levels.
Best
Niki

View user profile http://myspace.com/nikidolp

7 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:27 am

Niki wrote:Hey woof, thanks for listening! I think changing between the different levels around really opens up the whole thing and 6/8 is perfect for it..I also like that song "Poem I(February)" written by our saxophonist...its a nice band called "Double Reed Quartet" with just two horns (alternating between alto saxophone and soprano sax) , acoustic bass and drums.
I wonder how others approach the idea of binary and tertiary levels.
Best
Niki

I accessed the link without any problem. Rather than be concerned where and who it came from, I'm commenting here with a view toward the wonderful expressions you portrayed with binary and tertiary.

I seem to remember years ago that some drummers here couldn't (or wouldn't) understand that any notation can be expressed in a number of ways. Even straight 8s can be rendered with swing in mind. I think some folks are just stuck in their musical AND personal expressions.

I am qualified to speak here - and on that note, I applaud you Niki! Strangely enough, Woofus chose to say he's not qualified. Strangely enough, Woofus should listen to what you did without any assumptions on my part. Strangely enough, Woofus' performances online here are very close to yours, while I offer encouragement to you both.

Niki... that was splendid. There will always be a "play" between 2 & 3. It just matters where We want to go. Some choose to go nowhere - while others are pioneers into the wilderness of Music. What a wildnerness that is. Just make sure you have survival skills.

You clearly do Niki... with respect to Keith (Woofus) and everyone.

View user profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

8 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:53 am

Suss wrote:Even straight 8s can be rendered with swing in mind. I think some folks are just stuck in their musical AND personal expressions.

Ahh, the question of a lifetime. How can we have a flexible heart? It's the inflexibility which causes so many problems; the forcing of matters manifesting in breaking things . . . things like your car window handle. Lack of cooperation/connection with the world; distraction from the beauty of it all. Creativity is about opposites moving together; the solution is somewhere in the middle.

Swing is an arbitrary term here. Gotta love it when a waltz swings. Here's one from 2003 I posted years ago that swings sometimes, but other times I chopped it up with too much triplet feel and should have straightened it out:
http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream2003/music/songs/until-it-s-time-for-you-to-go-13937261

Niki, I haven't gotten back to your stuff to really absorb it, but I'm gonna soon.

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream23

9 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:08 pm

woofus wrote:
Suss wrote:Even straight 8s can be rendered with swing in mind. I think some folks are just stuck in their musical AND personal expressions.

Ahh, the question of a lifetime. How can we have a flexible heart? It's the inflexibility which causes so many problems; the forcing of matters manifesting in breaking things . . . things like your car window handle. Lack of cooperation/connection with the world; distraction from the beauty of it all. Creativity is about opposites moving together; the solution is somewhere in the middle.

Swing is an arbitrary term here. Gotta love it when a waltz swings. Here's one from 2003 I posted years ago that swings sometimes, but other times I chopped it up with too much triplet feel and should have straightened it out:
http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream2003/music/songs/until-it-s-time-for-you-to-go-13937261

Niki, I haven't gotten back to your stuff to really absorb it, but I'm gonna soon.


As Jackie Gleason used to say on his show and the Honeymooners:

How Sweet It is!

To play a poly-rhythm alone is to make no sense. The melody of rhythm is found in how it crosses the melody and melodics being supported.

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! It's all about the music and you guys are demonstrating the more subtle aspects of what is intended by the concept.

I love both of you guy's approach to the songs you posted. Perhaps the more bigoted around the world will back up and take a listen.

As to the societal issues fragmenting our fabric? I'd simply say that its synergy rather than selfishness.

[quote="woofus"]
Suss wrote:Even straight 8s can be rendered with swing in mind. I think some folks are just stuck in their musical AND personal expressions.

woofus wrote:Creativity is about opposites moving together; the solution is somewhere in the middle.

Yes Woofus! SYNERGY as defined and demonstrated!

View user profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

10 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:35 pm

Yeah, that's the fun and magic in music, when syncopation creates synergy. The great painters do it on canvas. Billy has talked about doing more with less . . . leaving spaces and creating an illusion of sound where none exists. Goes back to West African rhythms and probably India. The science of it all is where I'm lacking. Here's a nice site breaking it down, demonstrating simple things fitting together to create amazing complexity: http://tontinkan.net/

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream23

11 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:35 pm

woofus wrote:Yeah, that's the fun and magic in music, when syncopation creates synergy. The great painters do it on canvas. Billy has talked about doing more with less . . . leaving spaces and creating an illusion of sound where none exists. Goes back to West African rhythms and probably India. The science of it all is where I'm lacking. Here's a nice site breaking it down, demonstrating simple things fitting together to create amazing complexity: http://tontinkan.net/

ďIn West Africa, traditional music is still performed at various times, such as ceremonial functions, festivals and so on. In urban area, however, music arranged by dance and percussion groups prevails. Therefore, these rhythms are often different from traditional rhythms performed in rural villages.

We have to be careful about this point. Many years have passed since a lot of djembe rhythms were created. It seems that the rhythms changed while they were brought down from generation to generation and it's still going on now.

The rhythms we introduce on this website are just an example. There may be many other variations. You may think a rhythm on this website is WRONG, but please do not look for the truth. Don't bother with your dictionaries. A famous djembe player Yaya Diallo, says "Africans don't seek to know who is right and who is wrong."

You got it Keith! I have it too! Would so MANY others GET IT!

What I get from the photo alone is that while some KEEP time, others are rushing about with their frenzied concerns without taking notice.

I get that it's not wise to look for the truth unless one is able to embrace it! Then the Truth will find US!

Ö and this is not ones personís opinion. Itís a Principle like Gravity!


View user profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

12 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:06 pm

Niki, my simplistic approach to changing things up in this way is by changing HH or ride patterns, but what I'm learning from you here and inspired to try more is by way of drums and fills . . .

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/jazzstream23

13 Re: Playing around with binary and tertiary on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:18 pm

woofus wrote:Niki, my simplistic approach to changing things up in this way is by changing HH or ride patterns, but what I'm learning from you here and inspired to try more is by way of drums and fills . . .

Hey Woofus... I don't believe there's a "simplistic" bone in your body. Interchange the feet with the hands and visa versa. You're already satyrical enough to bamboozle most of us...

Niki... you're playing inspires those who listen - and for good reason along with most in this community!

View user profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum