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NEW MAHA VIDEO RESCUED FROM THE TRASH !!!!!

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1 NEW MAHA VIDEO RESCUED FROM THE TRASH !!!!! on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:41 am

You can see it here on Walter's site: www.walterkolosky.com . Along with the video is an unseen, and unreleased photo of John taken in 1973 by Peter Cunningham. And for the story about how and where the Telerock video was discovered , look for the link on Walter's site.


Peace, TED

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wow . 28 views so far and no comments other than this one. A little surprising. Oh well.


Peace, TED

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Its great


Well done Walter and Ted and the Team
for this Rare Video

10 Outta 10


I wish I could buy it on DVD or BluRay


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Colin

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thanks Colin ! And I wish the BBC could find the other 15 minutes of the Maha concert there which was originally broadcast.......

I'm hoping when the Don Kirshner estate owners release the tapes on DVD of Rock Concert and/or In Concert that I will be able to buy a mint copy of those performances too !


Peace, TED

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5 Re: NEW MAHA Video on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:48 am

Ted...the video has been taken down from the guy's website, though I was able to find it on Youtube now.

Awesome video, nice find!!

Most of this video footage is caught up in legal red tape and will probably never be officially released.
It is up to the collectors to compile this footage and keep it safe, there is a demand for this footage but no one
seems to care about putting out any official releases. Why isn't John Mclaughlin interested in compiling this stuff?
It seems every other band has put out some rare video collection on DVD, but the Mahavishu camp seems to not care at all about it.

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Drumman, what "guy's website " are you talking about that it was taken down from ?? the video is still up on Walter's site www.walterkolosky.com and the youtube channel that it's posted on is mine . Are you saying you saw it somewhere else ?

And to answer your question about John, no he really doesn't care about things in the past that much, as he's a Zen person . The other band members sort of feel the same way too. I can understand that.


Peace, TED


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drumman, in the case of many musicians, it's about the now.
Musicians for the most part are perpetual well builders and
once a new one is built they generally don't like going back to
the old well and dipping from there. It's all about moving on!

M.O. had their day and that day is now done. Forward, march!

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8 Re: NEW MAHA Video on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:29 am

That is a nice thought but if everybody thought that way there would be no DVD market at all...lol.

Mahavishnu was a once in a lifetime experience that many people were either too young to experience or not even born yet to see.
What is the harm in having a video collection released to document the awesome band that this was?

If the footage exists, why not release it?
I don't really believe John Mclaughlin doesn't want it released, he probably just doesn't think about it.
It would take a well organized institution to get all the footage together and get the licencing to have it released.
A video company would have to be willing to take the finanicial risk and put it out for the fans.

Ted, no need to have a bad attitude..the video on Walter's site was not working and I did not realize that you posted
it on Youtube. Your getting pretty cranky in your old age...lol.

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Drumman I don't see how my answer made you think I have a bad attitude. I don't . My concern is that I don't want someone else copying the video and displaying it elsewhere as happens all the time on youtube. If you saw it elsewhere I'd appreciate knowing about it !

If the video is not working on Walter's site, I will look into it and thanks for bringing it to my attention.

We did do a lot of work to put this thing together , and to share it with the world, at my expense, so I think I have the right to expect it to stay that way, don't you ?

That video was destined for the trash, and I think it's just amazing that my friend saved it.

As far as the video footage being released, it comes down to who is going to pay to put it out. As I said in a previous post, Don Kirshner's estate is supposedly going to be putting out stuff from Rock Concert and maybe In Concert, When and what will come out, we don't know, but I'm on their mailing list.

The rights to the BBC concert are owned by the BBC and they charge $1000 a minute for footage. I know that because I'm privy to information from the person who did that inquiry. So that's $30,000 just for the 1/2 hour concert right there. Figure on the same thing for Chateauvallon concert from French TV, Das Sonntag from German TV, and the student film from Skytop at Syracuse University. I own the tape for the Telerock footage but I don't own the rights to the broadcast. The TV station which originally showed it is still in business and though it's been 41 years, they probably own the rights.

So if you roughly figure it might take $50,000 to $100,000 to license the rights, you also have to find the master tape in order to dupe it. the BBC and Don Kirshner have their masters - the rest, we don't know. Then figure on the cost to master the tapes and have the DVD's manufactured. I think you can see it's a big number already.

Then you have to look at the market...... How many people would actually buy something by the MO now ? We have an idea of that because of how many books Walter has sold - Also how many of the Maha box sets were sold as well as Lost Trident Sessions etc. That amount is not as big as you might think. If it was going to be profitable don't you think Sony would have released the Live in Cincinnati album which still sits in their vault ? Which was re-mastered by John himself too. How much would the DVD have to be sold for to break even, let alone make a profit ?

While we all love jazz rock fusion or whatever you want to label it, unfortunately it's just a minor blip in the music market. The artists who play this music , including Boomer, are now relegated to playing 300 seat and smaller clubs to audiences that are getting older and don't come out to support the music like they should.

You can rest assured that if there is any way to get something done along those lines, I will be glad to help. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your free viewing of unknown footage from 41 years ago that was rescued from the trash .......


Peace, TED

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I'm not talking about video markets and I'm not talking about
any harm. What I'm saying is as artists, how many times do
you need to paint the same picture, either on canvas or CD?
How many versions of Mona Lisa's do you need to see?

M.O. represented a time and a culture that is now gone. somehow
THEY seem to know that. Sure, you'll always have your diehard
hangers on but for the bigger part, it's done.

M.O. is well documented.... With audio recordings and video clips.
Likewise I can say that if artists thought like you, they'd never create
new material as they'd be too busy trying to resurrect the stuff they
did some 40 plus years ago.

But I won't say that. Wink

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I love watching the old video
footage.  It was ground-breaking
music and times.

Boomer changed everything.

It's great when composers and
bands can make a new statement
and change directions.

Thanks, Walter!



Last edited by Admin (Pete) on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:55 pm; edited 2 times in total


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12 Re: NEW MAHA Video on Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:19 pm

D.Slam, I am not quite getting your point, are you against anybody ever putting out a video of their efforts?
There are thousands of music DVD's out that reflect band's past history, you are saying that is wrong?

To be proud of your past musical history is not a bad thing and to put it out on DVD is even better.
So you are not supposed to put something out because it violates some moral or ethical code that you have established?

It's not that deep, it's just entertainment...it's meant to be enjoyed.
Videos are time capsules of the past, yes they can't be re-lived, but that is the beauty of it and video is a way of
capturing a spirit of the times and bringing it to the present to be enjoyed.

If that is a bad thing, then why are there so many music DVD and Blu-rays being produced and sold in the U.S. every year?
It's entertainment...it's the 21st Century....get use to it.

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And, Ted in response to this statement:

We did do a lot of work to put this thing together , and to share it with the world, at my expense, so I think I have the right to expect it to stay that way, don't you ?

That would be great but I think you and I both know
that's just wishful thinking...  ANY and EVERYTHING
that goes up on the net is fair game!  I mean let's be
realistic about this!  We now have the means to download
video clips to our computers right from the source.  I have a
program that allows me to view major motion pictures LONG
before they hit the theaters.

You don't want your material pirated or moved around then
the best thing to do is keep it off of the WWW.  Copying has
always been around and the ONLY thing that's changed about
it is the technology has made it easier to do so.

While we all love jazz rock fusion or whatever you want to label it, unfortunately it's just a minor blip in the music market. The artists who play this music , including Boomer, are now relegated to playing 300 seat and smaller clubs.

What else is new??!! Jazz and fusion selling out the house at Madison Square Garden? I think not.



Last edited by D. Slam on Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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drumman, where do you draw your conclusions?!
I'm simply telling you that creative artists are generally
about moving forward.  They do a project and they move
on.  Thus who are we to ASSUME that their sentiments
and emotions toward what they've created in the passed
are the same as ours?

You're asking Why, why, why...  I'm just telling you why
that's all!  I said nothing about anything being "wrong" or
a "bad thing."

I mean think about it....  Some very rare live video footage
of the Mahavishnu Orchestra somehow wound up in the trash!

What does that tell you when folks are that careless with
something so precious?!

Musicians generally move FORWARD, not BACKWARD!
Get used to THAT!

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15 Re: NEW MAHA Video on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:16 pm

Who said anybody was moving backward?

Your debating the wrong subject, it's just a video that was found and a few excited comments about how cool it is.
We are not debating musicianship or philosophies of moving forward with your development as a musician.

This is a thread about a new Mahavishnu video that was found and a few people commented about it being released.

It really doesn't warrant a deep philosophical debate about the past and it's meaning.

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drumman wrote:Who said anybody was moving backward?

Your debating the wrong subject, it's just a video that was found and a few excited comments about how cool it is.
We are not debating musicianship or philosophies of moving forward with your development as a musician.

This is a thread about a new Mahavishnu video that was found and a few people commented about it being released.

It really doesn't warrant a deep philosophical debate about the past and it's meaning.

drumman, slow down, breathe deep and take time to try and absorb what I'm
saying here.

Again, like you did with Ted, you're readings things into this that are not there.
I was not using the term "BACWARD" with a negative connotation.  I was simply
giving an opinionated answer to your earlier question:

there is a demand for this footage but no one
seems to care about putting out any official releases. Why isn't John Mclaughlin interested in compiling this stuff?
It seems every other band has put out some rare video collection on DVD, but the Mahavishu camp seems to not care at all about it.

Consider the fact that the artist may not care about our "demand."
Some just don't wanna go BACK there!  Even just because YOU may
want them to!  C'mon, man!  What if "every other band" decided to
jump off a bridge?

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Yeah D, I'm aware that anything can be copied once it goes on the net. So I did a small thing and added a watermark with my initials in the right corner. The original does not have that. About all I could do.

The way the video came into my possession was, to me, what has come around because of my good Karma toward that band and their music. I had reunited with a grammar school classmate a couple of years ago, as I'm sure many have now done because of the net. He came to the reunion with copies of his latest book , Nightmare in Napa, for all of us which I thought was cool ! I told him of my involvement with the MO book and sent him a copy the following day . He was not a fan of the band, but he enjoyed the book. So when he was going thru Nat's storage locker looking for a certain tape he came upon the Mahavishnu stuff and immediately thought of me. and the rest is history.

So I could have sat home with the tape and not said anything about it, and been the only person in the world with a copy. No one in the band , nor their tour manager Elliot Sears, even remembered that show being taped. nor did Walter and I.

But I believe it was not an accident that the tape was found. So in that spirit, my thought was to share it with all the MO fans out there and add another clip to the 6 that already exist of different performances.

To those of us who really, really , really like that band , and I know you're not one of those and that's fine, this is a big deal. It's also a big deal to musicians like Chick Corea, Gary Husband, and Dennis Chambers who have already contacted us about how much they love it ........

So please enjoy it in the spirit that I have shared it with all of you !!!


Peace, TED

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Understood, Ted, and I definitely understand the magnitude of
what it is you have. My somewhat disenchantment with M.O.
no less diminishes the value of this find in anyone other than
myself. If I were a music collector then I'm sure my views would
be different. But I'm a music listener. Therefore if it holds no
audible pleasantries with me then I'm just not that interested
personally. But I surely understand the significance of this find
historically if nothing else. And I'm happy for all those who are
happy about it.

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19 Re: NEW MAHA VIDEO RESCUED FROM THE TRASH !!!!! on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:40 pm

Nice find! I'm interested because the shows were smokin hot and they would stretch out on the tunes. They show a whole different angle from what was done in the studio. I love seeing all the different stages musicians go through even when it's in the garbage can, In some cases they were more raw and in your face in the beginning. We have the technology why not. Viva la technology.
When I heard the shows on wolf gangs vault I was blown away. Sure maybe they were ill gotten yet maybe the musicians will see the positive side of that coin as many do. Also as far as I am concerned mahavishnu orchestra ended when the original quintet broke up. Because the following output is weak in comparison IMTotallyHO ; )

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Ted E. Bear wrote:  wow . 28 views so far and no comments other than this one.   A little surprising. Oh well.
Peace,  TED

Personally, I loved watching it. That period of time was transitional for me musically speaking, and Boomer with MO was epic.

Nice find... it always helps to know where we come from to determine where we're going - on any level.

cheers

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Thanks Guys !!



Peace, TED

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22 Re: NEW MAHA VIDEO RESCUED FROM THE TRASH !!!!! on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:34 am

A couple of years ago I showed John pictures I took of MahavOrch II's 1974 appearance at Montreux together with pictures of him and other band members with Sri Chinmoy the next day in Geneva.  While he kept the photo of him with Chinmoy, his palpable disinterest in the performance pictures made it clear that the past is not very relevant for him.  I'm sure he like all humans feels nostalgic, but it seems to me that he is focused on and in the present.  That is what meditation does.

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