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Tony Williams: Philosophy on Grip and Rebound of the stick

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Always thought that Tony Williams contributed good/sound advise on grip in terms of combining both traditional and match (24:24 on slider). Also, early in the video, he mentions not being dependent on the bounce of the stick but being more in control by way of holding the stick in both schools (trad and match) which defies particular factors to customary dependency teachings on stick rebound. Because of this video, I've been playing that way eve since (1980s') and personally found more control on my attack going around the kit. Tony's focused concentration was what the audience/fellow musicians heard and felt rather than subjectively just getting off on playing the kit. His thoughts on grip also explains, somewhat, his physical bearing on his attack as well.

My take,

View user profile http://www.glennracoma.com
I was particularly interested
in this video having had actual
experience with him, as a youth.

It's interesting to hear him talk
about "standard" in drums and
then the section on grip.

I like the speak about Miles and
how he told him that everything
he did was good etc. and that
it may have been good and bad
and that he was still trying to
work that out.

He talked about playing loud
and soft but the fact is that he
was a very loud player, in my
opinion, of course. I am speak-
ing for his accompaniment, too
and even especially. I think it
was Ron Carter that said, "He
is not loud. He's Tony."


On grip, he did say those exact
things, though he did not isolate
the back two fingers like he did
in this clinic.  He was basically
in attack of bouncing the stick
as a method of non-control.  I
remember him using the words:
"mish-mash" and other dero-
gatories etc.


I think we can talk a lot more
about this and what he is doing
with those back two fingers and
perhaps even how he uses those
fingers like many of the other
drummers use the front two.



To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com
Interesting Pete that you brought attention to those two back fingers. Now that you've mentioned it, it appears  probable, to some degree, that bounce couples with the finger technique. Not sure but it also seems his aggressive attack on the kit predominates the theory of dependent stick rebound. Having said that, he mentions, as drummers, that we're in this constant state of pulling sticks upward against gravity which says a lot about Tony's aggressive physical approach. That concept seems to override the theory of rebound or bounce of the sticks. We may also consider the batter heads he used (Remo Dotted) which did not allow for much bounce due to the thickness of the head, compounded with the thickness of the dot. It's almost as if he preferred that semi-deadness to the sound. Actually I kind of liked it but it was a bitch to play. Smile

When discussing his yellow Gretsch kit, he said that it's the perfect kit in that he can either play very loud as well as very soft to the touch; and this has all to do in the way one excerpts energy and proper grip (trad or match) of the sticks.

Thanks for the insightful input.

View user profile http://www.glennracoma.com
Oh, I could go on and on
about this clinic recording,
his avoiding certain obvious
avoiding of subject matter,
like purposely avoiding the
question regarding the blues
shuffle and how, upon view,
we can see how the stick is
actually interacting with the
surface of his/that splashy
ride... but we respect him.

He could have talked about
the Lopsy Lu-shuffle and then
answered the blues question
easily.  He could be like that.

Having had the personal ex-
perience with him, I cannot
help but put the emotion of
of it, all, together in the bag,
which was just the opposite
of what it it was like for him
hearing from Miles that every
thing he did was "right".  It
was not confidence building
in the least.  While I found
myself changing direction in
the/my grip, it was without
what I thought could have
been a clearer concept of
the actual technique, which
he made sound as though
required no fulcrum.

On Black Dots: you had to
hit them hard to get a tone
out of them and he did not
mention how the heads were
"used as targeting for practice".
We all know the CS Black Dot's
deadening effect of the sound
that emanates from the drum.

You heard some earnest speak
regarding engineer's and the
sounds of that era that could
get in the way of the "sound
of the kit". Those of us that
were working in the studio at
the time remember what it was
like to sometimes not have any
say in how the drums were go-
ing to sound. It was a huge
issue. I think we hear more
of the kits, today, btw.

Again, I could go on but I do
not want to serve "sour grapes".
Clearly, he was Tony and he
chose to present himself in
that way, which may have
seemed arrogant to me but I
believe there are more ways
than one to train a dog.




PS: I am sure we are going to
be talking more about this.


To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com
Funny thing about the black dots....  I hated them!
I was just too young and naive to know the difference.
Those were the latest and greatest from Remo, so I
played them...  Simple as that.  Then came the Silver
dots, and those were even worse.

And I used these things all around including on the snare drum.
Can you imagine?!  Even then I realized how dead the rebound
was and they definitely made the drums more difficult to play.  
But when I was a youngster I never gave much thought to the
advantage of bounce and rebound.  These were the "in" heads
and you played them.

Kinda like having Billy's big 22" Swish Knocker.  Who cares if it
works or not for your band... You get one and you MAKE that
square peg fit into that round hole.

Amazing some of the dumb things I've done that took me to
gain the most basic of knowledge and common sense.

View user profile
D said:

"Kinda like having Billy's big 22" Swish Knocker. Who cares if it
works or not for your band... You get one and you MAKE that
square peg fit into that round hole."

Love it!!



To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com

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