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playing between the spaces and other drum jargon

+3
Harris K.
D. Slam
kenny
7 posters

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kenny

kenny

I did a gig tonight and the guitarist turns to me before each tune practically and says leave alot of space. After the gig he says don't be afraid of the space. Well I understand his sentiment to not overplay and hang back. But in reality you can only do that to a point. This is another one of those metaphysical musical concepts. What the hell space and why shouldn't i be allowed to fill it occasonally? I'm improvising my beats to their music to begin with. What am I their indentured servent each gig. he's not a drummer. But they hear this concept about leaving the space and that is all well and good. But at what point do you say something in the space as well. I think I have a vocabulary and I'm not afraid to use it. okay i have alot to say musically too. Am I allowed to express myself in the musical conversation or am i a flippin slave? the fiddler got to say everything and we hung back and backed her up and it was very dynamic and awesome. And i injected some african and latin and funk. Sometimes i think people just say things like they are on automatic pilot and don't really think but repeat their concept over and over. Until they just kill what life the music may have had. I understand how to lay back and make room for the indtrumentalists but ami not also an instrumentalist . Maybe I overplay in his mind a bit. But i get sick f hearing his whiney ass! To tell you the truth I think this guys brain is stuck on his tape recording. Do you guys have any similar experiences. This kind of thing can crush the soul of the music.

hey i found this sweet 20"pang for 30 bucks!! I didn't use it tonight the guy would've had a fit!!!

http://www.balkanmusic.org

D. Slam

D. Slam

Well, I'm gonna assume that this is his group and maybe even his material. If not and this is a mutual collaboration, then sit him down and have a heart to heart. If it IS his group and he's hiring you, then be quiet and give him what he wants.

Or....... Quit and start your own band and play whatever the heck you want. Exclamation

Simple, huh?

Harris K.



Kenny, the members of a band play the way they play. They have a certain style, which they have developed over the years, and no matter how much you may force them to deviate from it, their style is going to be there. And that's a good thing.

IMO things are simple. If that guitarist doesn't like your style, and the band agrees with him, they should get another drummer. If the rest of the band like your playing, he should look for another band. And if it's his project, he should have hired a drummer whose style he liked, in the first place. What must not happen is to keep this situation going. It doesn't sound like fun, when that's exactly what it should be, above and before anything else.

kenny

kenny

The funny thing is they love me. It's just him trying to control up the aural space of the music all the time. And the reality is, you can't. They compliment me and hire me back. this "space" concept. I understand that. he would be much happier with a drum machine that can take solos too. Don's advice is good. i need to let him know how i feel but it is awkward. It is his band. But I just really take offense to his incessant "space" trip. I actually take his direction and it works well. i approach the tunes sparely. I'll tell you how this group works. It's a husband and wife celtic duo that adds a drummer/percussionist and sometimes also bass. So the 2 of them run the show. She is phenomenal. He is good but not on her level as an improvisor or player. So he keeps the structures together for her to blow on then he'll take an occasional solo. They give me solos too. we don't rehearse. i show up at the gig and it works fine, they pay me. We get along well. I think he's a little rigid in some ways for the sake of the music and i respect that. Maybe i'm being sensitive. I'm so busy I don't feel the need to pursue them. i was kind of looking at this particular gig as a chance to cut loose and it ended up being great anyway.
They don't tell me what beats to play. I am familiar with this style of music and play fiddle and guitar myself. So they just kind of give me minimal direction so i enter the tunes somewhat blind and feel them out and strangely it works. looking back it was a great gig. "Don't be afraid to play between the space. " he just needs a new line.

http://www.balkanmusic.org

spanky

spanky

A former musical director at my church use to look back at me and shake his head no, when I would do fills. This made me not want to play with him, because he was holding back who I was. But the last 2 outdoor concerts we did, I played how I wanted to play, and he would look over at me when I was doing fills, and I did not give a damn, the crowd loved it. We as drummers should not over play, but we also should not let people surpress who we are on our instruments. But I understand that sometimes you need the money, and have to put up with some of these idiots.

D. Slam

D. Slam

spanky wrote:A former musical director at my church use to look back at me and shake his head no, when I would do fills. This made me not want to play with him, because he was holding back who I was. But the last 2 outdoor concerts we did, I played how I wanted to play, and he would look over at me when I was doing fills, and I did not give a damn, the crowd loved it. We as drummers should not over play, but we also should not let people surpress who we are on our instruments. But I understand that sometimes you need the money, and have to put up with some of these idiots.

I hear you Spanky. If I were in your situation, I'd simply tell the director to back off or find someone else. Or better yet since he knows so much about laying a drum foundation that he should play them himself. I hate that!!! Sometimes, Don, the leader in the joint Chiefs band that I am a part of did this with me. I had to pull him aside and tell him that he's got to let me do my job and that I can't sit there and play HIS every interpretation of the music.

I told him that I understand that he hears certain things but he also has to trust me with my chair and let me do my job. Things have gotten much better since that conversation. But understand, I am more an equal part of the band and Kenny's positional situation is a bit different. It sounds like he's more a hired gun which alots him less say so.

Kenny, talk to him, tell him how you feel. That's your chair and he needs to have a bit more faith in you and where you sit. Tell him how what he does makes you feel. One of two things will happen. He'll back off, or he won't. At which point you'll have a dicision to make. Continue and give him what he asks for, or move on.

But first things first..... TALK TO HIM.

spanky

spanky

Good words Don.

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear

Hi Kenny,

I totally agree with Don and spanky about having a talk with him about how you want to approach the 'space".

Might I suggest something which you might want to do during that talk. Why not ask them [ the duo] if they would be willing to do a song or two featuring you playing a totally different ethnic insturment and style, and have them both step out of their comfort zone and play them with you. This would allow you to cut loose , it might be fun for them and most importantly, might really please the audience to hear something they wouldn't be expecting.

Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

Woody

Woody

Sounds like your leader is a frustrated drummer!!!

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/robertwoodbury

kenny

kenny

Hi gents!
You know The guy really means well it's his tone that is upsetting. He does get me to play outside of my zone and it is refreshing. I just need to understand that it's his tone that bugs me and not the message so much. I'm happy to play sparingly. The fact is we listen and enjoy much different music as much as we do the same. We are totally different creatures who have this one stylistic similarity in celtic and traditional music. Outside of that I like more edgy jazz he's more punk I guess. I think he limits himself in some ways by his belief system surrounding what makes good music. But i can deal with our differences. All said and done they are easy to play with for me. I guess i don't feel appreciated for the fact that i nail their stuff endings and everthing without ever hearing them. I take cues well and that comes from my experience.

here are the basic aspects of this situation:
we don't really rehearse as they live 40 miles away.
We play pretty rarely.
They are great players.
We have great chemistry.
The music is uplfting as heck.
The money is not bad and appreciated.
I do appreciate them as players.

What bugs me is:
the "space" jive
the fact that we don't work up anything that is collaborative as Ted suggests.

So Now i can see what my options are.
Do i mention to him how his manner bugs me?
Probably not. I'll make the move to rehearse with them and be more serious or leave things the way they are.
I've got options.
You guys are good friends.

hey pete what did you do to the stock market? Basketball

http://www.balkanmusic.org

D. Slam

D. Slam

I'm a bit confused now. First it was the fact that he kept telling you to leave space, now it's his tone.

What you might want to do first, Kenny is sit down and give some serious thought as to exactly what it is he does that bothers you. Then weigh the consequences of telling him or not. Maybe it's something you can deal with and learn to overlook.

If it was for sure the space thing, and judging by your opening post how much it seemed to bother you then I'd say definately talk to him. If he is belittling you in the tone he uses when speaking to you, again, I'd say talk to him. However, after reading your last post, I really can't say for sure as only you know how deep whatever it is that's bothering you is getting under your skin.

I'm sure you'll work it out.

D.

spanky

spanky

Yeah that last post threw me off too.

kenny

kenny

well sometimes it takes a little mulling things over to understand your feelings. It's the way he commands me on stage that feels belittling. If he said it a little softer and not with this ordering tone of voice it would be a different story. The fact that i will fill in spaces he won't like is something he'll have to come to terms with. Everything can't be bare bones all the time. That sounds sterile. The issue i realise is the way it is communicated on stage with this bossman attitude. It doesn't make for good vibes it's complicated i guess. It's about putting yourself in a person's shoes and speaking in a way that they will be more receptive. it's about the vibe. i hate when bands argue on stage.over arrangements and mistakes and things. It is so unprofessional. You have to be subtle. Something in my brazilian group bugged me the other night when people in the band decide to start directing things and start talking to each over the music. That is irritating to me. i want to enjoy the music. In fact at rehearsal the leader says to the trumpet player, "toward the end of your solo cue so i know your done because i might be busy being distracted by something." I was like, "That is not an option!". WHy not listen to the solo and be part of the group when he solos? it really struck a chord in me like how out of touch can someone be? be there for the music and get a grip

http://www.balkanmusic.org

D. Slam

D. Slam

That sounds right on the money, Kenny.... Now, go repeat it where it will have the most effect.

rarebit



When in Doubt, Roll -Bill Bruford

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