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Alan White do to free drum clinic at San Jose Guitar Center.

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kenny
fuzit
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D. Slam

D. Slam

8.02.10. I'll let you know how it goes.

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear


He's good Don, but don't expect fusion level chops . But I hope you enjoy it !

http://www.drumminfool.com

D. Slam

D. Slam

I figured as much, Ted... But that's okay.
There's more to playing the drums than just fusion.

Racman

Racman

There's more to playing the drums than just fusion.
D

That's the ideal attitude to have cause there is so much to benefit from the contribution of others, whether that be verbal or demonstrated. I think we need to develope an open mind, putting pre-concieved notions to the side and filter what we should hold to or toss out

Just my 1/2 cent worth,
Rac

http://www.glennracoma.com

5Alan White do to free drum clinic at San Jose Guitar Center. Empty Re: Alan White Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:45 pm

drumman



Alan does some tasteful stuff with Yes.

Alan White do to free drum clinic at San Jose Guitar Center. Alanwh10

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear

so how was the clinic "Don ?? did you go ?

http://www.drumminfool.com

D. Slam

D. Slam

Ted,

I'm sorry and embarrassed to say that I totally forgot about it and missed it.
I really wanted to go to that too. Just to see how Alan would present himself
in a clinical situation. I remembered the day after. Embarassed

fuzit



I checked him out about a day ago on Directv's 101 Network's Yes concert broadcast. He's pretty smooth...The concert strings were a nice touch!

Ted, being the YES expert, I have a question...What's the deal with Bruford? Is there a reason he won't tour with the group?

F.

kenny

kenny

Bfunki, Bruford left yes to join king crimson they screwed him out of royalties and made him sign over his drum parts and a slew of crap like that. he is very bitter towards them and touring in general due to the high cost.

http://www.balkanmusic.org

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear


I thought he had retired period. I don't know about him being screwed for royalties, is that in his book ? I haven't read it. He had no problem re-uniting with them for the Union tour.

Once he left Yes, for whatever reason, Alan White took over and has been with them ever since. I would doubt you will see Bruford with Yes again.

Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

fuzit



Thanks for the info, guys.

White's not bad, it's just that Bruford gave them a little something extra. (IMO)... And from the attendance I saw on the Directv concert, he's missing out on a lot of DUCKETS!!! But hey, money isn't all there is to life, is it? Very Happy

D. Slam

D. Slam

Yes, I also heard, I believe through Colin, that Bruford had not retired totally but had decided that his touring days were over. All the other stuff I've heard nothing about.

Signed over his drum parts??!! Oookaaaaayyyyy.... scratch

13Alan White do to free drum clinic at San Jose Guitar Center. Empty Re: Alan White Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:18 pm

drumman



That is wrong information, Bill Bruford never got screwed over royalities.
Like Ted said, he did ABWH in 1989-90 and the YES reunion in 1991.
He also did an album in 1993 called the Symphonic Music of Yes.

Bill has stated his dislike for Brian Lane, Yes's manager, but never lost
money. If he did, he would not have been able to retire so early.

Racman

Racman

That is wrong information, Bill Bruford never got screwed over royalities.
drumman

No drumman...it is quite the contrary. It was royalties that screwed him over.
No, I'm just joking Smile

But thank you for that information. I was never aware that he actually went into retirement. However, it puzzles me to figure how can a drummer, loves what he/she does, go into retirement unless the limbs go out?

Shalom,

Rac

http://www.glennracoma.com

kenny

kenny

No they made him give his composed drum parts to the band with no compensation.

http://www.balkanmusic.org

Racman

Racman

they made him give his composed drum parts to the band with no compensation.
Kenny

Why? Were these 'drum parts' that distinctively valuable that it became an issue with him? Is this man that much a demand to where people had to pay compensation for them? If that's the case we all should be sued and in prisoned for copping drum parts from other great drummers (Steve Gad, Tony Williams, Max Roach, etc., etc.).

And finally, would you think there are not drummers that could mimic this man's drum parts to some extent, yet modify it to where it's not breaching the original composition?

Please people, what's the real story here?

Just thoughts and questions...that's all.

Shalom,
Rac

http://www.glennracoma.com

kenny

kenny

They are original and written by him created for the music. They had to be taught to the next drummer in line. They refused to credit him for his original compositional patterns that he wrote. His drumming is very difficult to copy and master. Wouldn't you want what is due for your hard work? It wasn't just improvised. He had to compose the parts to fit with their peculiar music. According to Bruford he got a raw deal when he left. Although i liked what Alan White did to take his place he was nowhere near the skill and craftmanship bruford brought to the table. Alan is totally cool in my book i liked his first solo album. I know papa pete likes that one! IMO Bill Bruford is a virtually unsung genius for his contribution to Yes and never got the proper respect for the hard work he put into making that band sound like no other. His drumming is a signature of their total sound because he was so original and ahead in compositional drumming terms. Alan is the best they could come up with but was nowhere near Bruford's ability. It's totally akin to narada taking Boomer's place in MO, kind of a joke really. It's like jay leno having to take over for johnny carson it can be done but never with the same amount of natural talent to the point where it's like watching a nightmare. But we do what we can do.

http://www.balkanmusic.org

D. Slam

D. Slam

I'm sorry, Kenny... But your last post is just plain ridiculous! You shouldn't smoke and write...

For cryin out loud, man..... Rolling Eyes

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear


I'd like to know where you got that information from - and he got nothing in return ? Somehow that doesn't sound right to me, nor does it sound like something Bruford would agree to for nothing. thanks


Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

20Alan White do to free drum clinic at San Jose Guitar Center. Empty Re: Alan White Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:43 am

drumman



Dude, that is totally wrong.
They made him give his composed drum parts up?

Contact Bill at his web site, http://www.billbruford.com
and click on the contact tab on the far right.
You can tell him this ridiculous information and see what his response is.

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear


I decided to do a little research on the matter since I have nearly every album Yes has ever put out. First off, Bill Bruford played on exactly 6 Yes albums - the first 5 and the reunion album called Union:

I examined each record to see who writer's credit was given to. The great majority of Yes' music was written by Jon Anderson - not just on the first 5 albums, but spanning the entire catalog of Yes.

On their first two albums entitled Yes and Time & a Word , Yes did not write all the songs but actually did some cover tunes - By whom ?

I See You- by Jim McGuinn and David Crosby
Every Little Thing by Lennon & McCartney
No Opportunity necessary, No Experience Needed by Richie Havens
Everydays - by Stephen Stills
Sweet Dreams and Time and a Word by Jon Anderson with David Foster

Bill Bruford received a writing credit for the song Harold Land along with Jon Anderson and Chris Squire on Yes.

He received no writer's credits on Time and a Word.

The third album was entitled The Yes Album and all songs were written by Anderson, Squire, and Howe except for Yours is No Disgrace which was credited to the entire band as Yes which included Bruford.

Their 4th album was Fragile. Again most of the music was written by Anderson, Squire and Howe. Bruford got writing credit alone for Five per cent For Nothing, and also got credit with Anderson and Squire for Heart of the Sunrise

The Fifth album was Close to the Edge. Again all lyrics by Jon Anderson. And music by Anderson, Squire, Howe and Wakeman, Bruford given writing credit for one movement of the song And You And I entitled Eclipse, alongside Chris Squire.

The last album Bruford played on was entitled Union and was recorded in 1991 when 8 members of Yes got together to put that album together along with many other musicians and outside vocalists and producers. Bill Bruford received writing credit on two songs : Silent Talking, and Evensong . There were 14 tracks in total on this CD.

So Bruford received writing credit on at least one song on 5 of the 6 Yes albums he played on meaning he received royalties on sales of those albums.

I really dont' understand this statement about not being paid for his drum parts - writer's credit is given to the person or persons who compose the lyrics and/or the melodies for songs. If it's a drum solo, then yes, the drummer can be given credit for composing that. However, giving a drummer credit for writing his drum parts is just not done - should Ringo be given writing credits for all the Lennon/McCartney songs he played drums on ? Should Charlie Watts be given writing credits for all the Jagger/Richards songs he played on ? Maybe they should but I think it's figured that you get paid for that as the BAND gets paid - for gigs and the mechanical for records sold. Writer's credit [ or the publishing as it's called ] gets you paid when the song you write is played on the radio or performed by another artist either live or an a recording.

At least that's my understanding of it. Now , as I said , I didn't read Bruford's book so maybe he is complaining about not being paid for his drum parts. But you need to tell me that Kenny if that's the case. Or please tell me where you are getting the information from. Because my info comes from the records themselves.

Hope this clears things up a bit ! Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

Racman

Racman

writer's credit is given to the person or persons who compose the lyrics and/or the melodies for songs.
I think it's figured that you get paid for that as the BAND gets paid - for gigs and the mechanical for records sold.
Ted

Composers gets the bigger bite of the pie:

That pretty much explains the 'principle' of how it's been recognized for generations. Unless a drummer is a composer, then he/she is usually, or will, be rightly compensated financially and not because of some really cool drum parts.

Omar Hakim, Billy Cobham, Harvey Mason, to name a few, should be the beneficiaries of their compositional involvement and not strictly on the bases of drum parts. For if they did, then they would've been multi-billionaires some time ago without having to compose but just play cool drum parts and retire at a youthful age instead. It's an unfortunate situation but never the less a real one at that.

On the concept of corporation (a band) - If their contribution is being a segment (drummer) of a 'band' then their benefit derives from the principle of a corporate nature than as would be an individual composer. So I'm satisfied with Ted's realistic and time consuming observation over the contrary.

Gentlemen, have we arrived to an acceptable yet understandable closure to this?

Shalom,
Rac

http://www.glennracoma.com

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