Weckl: the Big, the Bang and that ageing Boom

Don't know about anyone else but I've been, on occasion, keeping track with Dave Weckl's progress. I think here's a man that as he gets older, gets better. I like his playing now more than before and it's probably due to getting up there in age. But then, I'm not sure what he may sound like in another 25, 30 years if he tarries. And that bass player (apology for not having his name) is a monster - flashes of Jaco maybe? ha! Just my thoughts.
racman

I remember Buddy stating he felt he was playing better later in life than when younger. I feel the same way now, myself. Age must bring things to the table, like wisdom, which somehow find their way into mind/muscle/technique ratios which couldn't quite develop when young.

With Weckle having such a complex style it's hard for me to see and hear deliberate changes.

I'm not surprised... I like Weckl! I think we all should improve as long as we keep "stickin" with it.

Great performances by everyone on the vid too!

Randy Brecker: trumpet
Mitchel Forman: piano/keyboards
Chuck Loeb: guitar
Eric Marienthal: sax
Gerald Veasley: bass
Dave Weckl: drums

i prefer weckl now than 20 years ago too!But i prefer the young Chambers and the young Colaiuta...
ps: the tune played is from the cd" Metro" with drummer Wolfgang Haffner.Peace Stef.

With Weckle having such a complex style it's hard for me to see and hear deliberate changes.

I believe a big part of that is Dave's linear style of play.

Personally I didn't care too much for this piece.
All stellar players, however.... No denying that.

I believe a big part of that is Dave's linear style of play.
D
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Hi D thanks for your response. Could you please explain 'linear style' as if you are talking to a 12 year old for all to understand.

Thanks and I would appreciate that,
racman

And thanks uncle Suss for that rundown of incredible musicians.

racman

relating to straight line: relating to a straight line or capable of being represented by a straight line

Okay, Rac, so in the case of drumming, Dave plays in such
a way that many of the notes hit at separate times. Thus,
if you were to transcribe a lot of his work, you'd find that
the series of written notes would be more of a wave pattern
in that there would be less notes stacked one over the other
where one rarely hits two or more drum characters at the same
time, i.e., kick and ride or snare and hi hat. Example: A triplet
is a linear pattern in that no drums are struck at the same time.

So obviously if you wrote that pattern out representing one drum
you'd get a straight line, while if you used two or more drums you'd
get more of a wave pattern with no stacked notation. Keep in mind
that the concept does not demand absolute notational separation
throughout the pattern. Yet, the overall concept commands a linear
style.

David Ghirabaldi plays liner patterns with Tower Of Power, though he has
a way of playing them tight and crisp which gives Tower it's sycapated funk
feel. You follow me?

In Weckl's case this is what gives his playing that sort of loose flowing
feel. So as Asaph was saying the changes become less distinct because
they kinda just flow into each other.

Actually, it takes a skillful hand and a strong grasp of the concept
to do this as if not done correctly the sound can become quite sloppy,
not just at the drum station but the entire band.

Below is a clip of me playing in 7 with a linear style. Notice how you can
hear a lot of separation between the notes (per drum) being played within
the groove. The fills a very linear also.

I hope this answer helps.



Here's a 9/8 pattern, same linear concept.

Hey D, thanks for that explanation. I like the how you took the conversation into triplets played on different drums rather than just on one drum. That gives me an idea of where you are going with this.

Those are wonderful videos and I really dig your bass drum techniques man. Keep it happening. How long have you been playing your HH with your right hand. I'm presuming that you are naturally lefty? I've started playing my HH with my left being that I'm a righty. Lenny White plays that way too and makes it look so easy but not. Right now, it's going through a rock tune that I'm playing left on the HH but eventually I want to play anything going that direction. I find so much freedom but still got to get through the unsureness on it...it will come.

Thanks D

racman

I know Weckle has made some comments about how studying with Freddie Gruber made a difference in his playing, but I really can't hear anything different from his days with Michael Camillo. He said Freddie gave him a more loose approach, but I still hear the same note displacements and broken time accents. He really dissects time more than any drummer I've heard, even Vinnie.

Serious chart on that tune, too. I loved the guitar solo. I can really get into hollow bodies.

Dave and I last November at the Blue Note when he was with the Elektric Band.


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Peace, TED

Rac,

I've always led with the right hand. In this case it's the drums that are
switched around. I'm using a cable hi hat with the pedal remaing on my
left side. Thus, I'm still playing as a right hander would, only open handed.

And yes, I am left handed but I've never played as one.

Asaph,

Dave's approach really hasn't changed that much as he just became better at
executing what he does. I can't really say that he disects time anymore than
any other player. But I know he talks about it a lot more in his instructional
videos. Also, Weckl is one who prides himself on being spot on. He doesn't
sluff anything. Kinda like your slogan: He strives to make every beat count.

I've always led with the right hand. In this case it's the drums that are
switched around. I'm using a cable hi hat with the pedal remaing on my
left side.
D
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Why of course...my bad. Yes, a cable HH with the pedal on your left that makes all the sense. You just reminded me of something I always wanted to buy. I like the feel and idea of keeping my right cross-over arm away from my left snare hand. Lots more freedom there. And you know, seeing your from the front makes it look like you're leading with the left like Lenny.

thank you,
rac

LOL. I went through a whole series of posts trying to figure out what Don is doing. I thought about trying it myself, throwing the toms right to left, doing an open-handed thing with cable hat. Takes me so long to set up I just haven't tried it yet. Some interesting patterns for fills comes to mind though.

At the very least it's worth a try. I like it because it
allows you to instantly play open handed without
having to learn how to rework the hands all over again
from opposite sides. The concept of playing fills from right
to left takes a little getting used to but it really didn't take
me long to get the hang of it.

Which one do I like better? Honestly, I can't choose one
over the other. They both have their positive attributes
and they each offer something the other one doesn't.
whenever I decide to play this setup the decision is more
an emotional one than anything else. I just feel like doing
it.

However, one major thing for me is I really enjoy the fact
of being able to sit square at the drum set... The open hand
concept allows for this whether you switch the drums around
or not.

One of the simple things that keeps me from trying it is that I have a cable hat on my right already and can play open-handed. I have three pedal hats set up, though one is just for light playing of accents instead of kick. It's on the right, too, but outside the basic Perimeter of the kit.

It's all about what works for you, Asaph. I'm one who is
constantly looking for practical ways to be out of the norm.
Lots of 'what if's' in my book.

Another technique I use is when playing traditional grip, I place
only the index finger over the stick and not the middle finger. I
find that this keeps me from having to pull my hand over (thumb
toward the floor) as much. Sometimes however I will place the
middle finger over as well just so I understand how to do it and
how it works.

I really enjoy experimenting with these ideas that go against the
grain... When Billy was asked why he used 3 bass drums, he simply
answered: "Why not?"

Yes, I remember Billy answering about the same thing when asked why he set up his toms in "reverse" order. Then he went further and set them up in staggered reverse order.

If there are "rules" to drum set configuration I know them not. Consider Bruford and others with very different set ups. I love watching Bruford do what he does on his split set-up. It's not for me, but I like watching him play.

People have asked me why I have as many cymbals as I do in my set-ups. Pianists have 88 keys to work with. They cannot play them all at once, and may not use them all in a given musical setting, but it's nice to have them there if they want to.

When I lived in Texas I sold a drum set I put together. The guy who bought them sent me a pic of them set up in his church. Rather than set up the "pancake" drums I made (4-6" toms in one unit) laterally he set them up vertically. Was far out looking and I'm sure he made the most of them.

Weckle is one of those players with a recognizable voice. I hear a generation of drummers doing what he does, but they don't sound like him, which is a testimony to his inventiveness and developed abilities.

I'd love to see a picture of your setup, Asaph! Post one when you can please.

Just FYI.... There's no "e" at the end of Weckl.

Well, I'll be. never realized that. Thank you.

Let' see. How do I post a pic. Can always send you here:

http://drumsinhisheart.weebly.com/pics.html

This is the current set, basically. I added another 6" tom and moved an 8" tom to my left, and a different snare, so it is 4x6, 4x6, 4x8, 4x8, 5x10, 6x12, 6.5x13, 7x14, 8x16, 9x18, 10x20, 11x22, 12x24, and a 6.5x13 Ipe (Ironwood) segmented snare, all have maple hoops.

Went to your page... TOTALLY AMAZING KITS, Asaph!!!! Which ones do
you still have if any?

GORGEOUS!!! I'd love for you to build me a kit!!! I totally love what you
did with mixing and matching shells, sizes, colors and wood patterns.
Absolutely wicked man!!! And I thought I was out of the norm!!!

You're outright CRAZY! And I mean that as a compliment!!! All those
cymbals are a bit overwhelming and visually smothering but if that's
part of your voice then it's all good.

BEAUTIFUL, stuff, my brotha... I'm HIGHLY impressed!!!!

Thank you so much. You are very kind.

Some of the sets were sold, or I cut down shells and made another set from them. I still have a set of shells from one kit, 8-18" 6 ply kellers with the walnut veneer. The leather set used to be the rainbow set. Cut down some of those toms. My favorite configuration is half toms. I love the way they sound and feel. The maple hoops are really something. They tune up so well you really have to get exact or flaws will jump out right quick. The maple hoop on the Ipe snare drum I love. Great side stick tone.

Yeah, people sit behind the set and don't quite know what to make of it. Actually after awhile, like anything else in drumming you can close your eyes and strike everything easily once memory gets a hold.

Half the cymbals are splashes and effect cymbals. Half as well are chinas. The two cymbal trees are Sabian flat chinas, and Wuhan chinas on the other. The guitarist I record with freaks out when I do ascending or descending rolls on them. I've had cymbal trees since the 70s.

Asaph.....Wow!!

I love the esthetics of your designs. It reminds me of something out of a sci-fi movie. Being the graphic artist that I am, my work is influenced by other earlier artist from the surrealism period like Salvador Dali, etc. As a craftsman of your caliber would you have any influences as to your development when designing drum kits?

Just curious because it's certainly obvious that this is an art form.

Thanks,
rac