Drumnetics Magnetic Pedal

Thanks, P.

That's good enough for me.

I'm in the market for 2 singles for my double bass
setup. My plan is to snag a pair of these when I can.

Don,

You know what was amazing about
Mike was that he offered me a trial
for just the postage! Can you believe
that?! He WANTED me (drummers)
to experience it, with the faith that
they would love it.

He may do that, again, in the future
and that would make it all the easier
for you. I hope he does it, again.

Either way, I will let you know. I
want you to try it, too.

There are some great pedals, out
there. You know how I feel about
most of them. The Trick, The Demon-
Drive and the Boa... I love these
pedals. I still play some of them
and like you, I have a special thing
for the Boas despite the short
foot-board and other issues I have
talked about extensively. In fact, I
hoped that they would take some
of the suggestions I had to heart
in a re-vamp of it, correcting what
the market was pointing out. To
this day - I am still convinced that
it is the most universal cam-design
available. You can make it do just
about anything but I am crazy for
loving it: some people think.

Anyway, there is something very
cool about spring-less. I know you
will appreciate this.

We'll find a way for you.

Regards,

I believe you can forget Yamaha.

So be it.

Next?

Many pedals have gone through modifications over its lifetime. I found the Speed Cobra to be better than its older brothers which I owned.

In the case of Drumnetics, owning the 12th pedal Mike made (which I got off ebay), and having the Nucleus, now the modified Nucleus, and playing the new 3XF I can say Mike does, indeed, listen to players and consumers. Very admirable. But he still has an uncanny ability to take what people suggest and apply his own spin to it.

In Michael Gerber's book, The E Myth, he writes about business and the need for small owners to wear three hats - the Technician, the Manager, and the Entrepreneur. Mike wears the Technician hat very well. The other two have been difficult for him, but circumstances are placing people in his orbit to address that and I believe the time has come for Mike to be able to take all this to the next level.

When you think about taking just an idea and turning it into an actual device, with patents, and carting up your life and investing in this as Mike has ... it is not easy by any stretch. Mike has hung in there when other people would have thrown up their hands and said forget it by now.

His ship will come in. Just a matter of time.

You're right, Asaph.

The economy, in addition, has animated
the situation but that is reality.

Yes. His ship will come in; I believe.

The product is just too good.

Regards,

In Michael Gerber's book, The E Myth, he writes about business and the need for small owners to wear three hats - the Technician, the Manager, and the Entrepreneur. Mike wears the Technician hat very well. The other two have been difficult for him,

That's because he has total control ove the technical aspect
of his product. The other two "hats" requires one to address
and deal with others wearing hats of their own.

This is why it's so difficult to hold a band together. It takes a
village and the villagers don't all agree.

For the most part Mike just isn't "wired" to wear the business hats. I and others have made suggestions for various aspects of business and marketing, etc., and he says, "Why didn't I think of that?" Simply because the manager's hat and entrepreneur's hat aren't his thing.

But, yes, when you have to take ideas and make them work you have to address other people in the process. Making a pedal is just you and the materials. Of course, on the other hand getting the materials is part of that process and that has involved some "interesting" people for Mike in the last six years. It's especially painful when parts aren't manufactured correctly. Puts a sour taste in the mouth for everything, and the manager's and entrepreneur's hats become even more unwelcome.

Mike may be the only drum hardware business out there that offered a trial period for the nominal fee included in the full price if you buy the pedal. But, amazingly, astoundingly enough, Mike tells me Pete and I are the only ones to take him up on that offer. I find that so hard to believe. Just shows how tough it is to be a new player in the neighborhood. He has certainly bent over backwards to get this device before the people.

Well, the manager's and entrepreneur's hats are
necessary if he wants to get his product on the market.
Or maybe he can hire someone to cover those ends.

As to the trial offer, this is the first I've heard about it.
All the more reason to get those other hats on straight
I guess.

Basically, you are talking
about only three variables:

1. The Shifting.
2. The magnets [upper (set) and lower (adjustable)].
3. Beater Arc.

There is nothing else to worry about. In this
regard, it is clearly the simplest alternative.

Regards,

Pete, I'm not certain how your post fits into the flow of the discussion. I feel like I missed a page somewhere but, to clarify, the axle magnets are adjustable, too.

What do you refer to when you state "shifting?"

Asaph,

Not sure how to take your meaning.

Don appreciates the K.I.S.S. approach
to pedals. I was just noting that for
him. I think he got or will get what I
said and how it applies to him. Of
course, it is about Mike's pedal that
I am speaking and this is the thread
on it, so here it is.

Don, over the last 10 years or so,
has made it quite clear to me that he
understands or does not understand
why I write or say what I do. We
have gotten to know each other.
He is not bashful. hehe

My axle magnets are not adjustable.
Tell me about how your axle magnets
are adjustable. I think that would be
a great thing. I got one of the early
jobs from Mike.

That is very cool about yours. You
are lucky. Someday, we'll have the
complete pedal; I am sure.

"Shifting" refers to floorboard being
able to be shifted forward or back-
wards creating that different pull
or snap back of the beater and
off head or pad. It is because of
of the angle at which the link is
pulled down that creates the
effect. The Pearl Power Shifter
pedals did this a certain way. It
is very effective. We had to get
the same effect a different way.
That's all it is.

Yes, we are very fortunate to have
these pedals from Mike that we do.
You, perhaps, more than I. That
is still very cool.

Take care.

Regards,

P.,

I fully understand why you write what you write,
as you are cataloging how these pedals pertain to
you and your needs.... Totally understandable.

The thing that I must be careful of in reading your
reviews is I have to keep in mind that you play on
a surface that's far different than what I or Asaph
play on.

So in the area of say, response of a pedal off the
surface, I must then take into consideration the
different surfaces that's being used between us.

Pete,

The thread kind of morphed into some discussion about business and all, and when I read your post of the 3 elements I couldn't link it to anything addressed or asked on page 8. So, I felt like I had to have missed some posts somewhere.

Funny how on the Speed Cobra even though a chain has no real snap back, the severe angle of the chain, in relation to cam and posts, creates a nice feel. But having the link on the Drumnetics at that severe an angle, by placing the posts further back was something I couldn't get used to. I like the posts forward, which straightens out the link more. The 3XF takes an in between position. Feels great, too.

Mike came here and showed me what to do to modify my Nucleus pedals. He just let me do it all in my shop. The top magnet cartridge is fixed to the cam, but the bottom cartridge is loose on the axle and has three holes in it. A small hole is drilled and tapped in the posts. A small hex screw can be placed into the cartridge holes for placement of that magnet - closer to, or farther from the fixed magnet.

In my case the best feel for me was to accentuate the forward motion as much as possible, and go beyond the third hole and the cartridge ends up having the screw protrude behind it so it can be rotated even closer to the fixed magnet. Unorthodox, but it works.

So, are your bottom cartridges fixed to the posts? Hm. You might want to back those screws out and see if you have placement holes in the cartridges you are not aware of. Once the cartridge is loose you can just turn it forward enough to see the face of it. You'll see the holes if they are there.

The 3XF has that adjustment feature on the bottom axle cartridge. Simple, but quite effective.

Have you gone to Mike's facebook page to see the new pedal? He was having pictures taken of the new pedal last I spoke to him, and the web site is under construction, but the actual CAD drawings are on the FB page. The thing just looks so cool. Because every part of the pedal was made in one shop this time it has a more uniform look to the aluminum. The design on the footboard is really good - the whole magnet theme. And the cam system is beefier.

Don, seeing i have both adrums and edrums, and use the Nucleus 3 double pedal on my edrums, I can say the feel, for me, is even faster off my two kick pads. The tighter surface just allows the pedal to respond that much faster. It really does what your foot does.

I have an older DrumTech kick pad, which I modified by gluing four mouse pads together on the aluminum plate. The other is a Hart kick drum, basically a 3x13 snare drum with spurs and their guts in it. Mesh head, with a foam block behind it which cushions the trigger.

The feel between a flexing bass drum head (22" and 24" for me) and the edrum pads is different, but I find no negative effects as far as the pedal is concerned. Just a matter of muscle memory when jumping between kits.

Looks like Mike has added a few pics of the new design on his FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152019135145181.900579.369896140180&type=3

Don,

I understand. When you
play them, you will be able
to decide. I think you will
like what you experience.

I am going to have a look at
the pedal, Asaph. Thanks.

Great pics! I like the look!

Regards,

I've been playing my Drumnetics pedals since 2007 and am very happy with them. I've had ZERO problems with them and they've held up to my playing (I'm a heavy hitter with a lot of double bass).

Before I switched to Drumnetics I played DW9000s.

timekeep69, having one of the pedals from that time period (0012), which is really great, I hope you get a chance to feel the new model. Trust me. You would be ecstatic how the upper magnets enable speed and control. I keep saying velvet rocket to Mars, and that's exactly what it is.

Look what I just got in the mail:



I have been inundated and so
busy but plan on a lowdown
for everyone. It sure is pretty.

Consider it a coming attraction.



Regards,

Mike and I were talking yesterday. He has some ideas which will broaden things and hopefully bring in some funding for the next run.

It's a good idea which just about everybody can benefit from.

Pete, have fun, there, Buddy. Every day I sit at the kit I marvel at being able to play quads and quints without even being warmed up. The device just works so naturally with muscles and joints. You think, you play. It cannot play for you, of course, but it certainly presents a link between mind and body I have never experienced with spring-based devices.

And yeah, it is a really attractive design, too.

Looking forward to your review.

I am sorry to keep teasing you. Work
has been out of control and among
other things. I want to be really fair
in this look at Mike's creation.

Here's a little something else:



This is a new addition to the pedal
design that I do not have on mine. It
not only adjusts the beater angle but
also changes the angle at which the
link (lengthened) pulls down and
creating a greater response (pullback)
after beater impact. I really like it.
It reminds me of the VDL in what it
creates for the Axis-A, though is not
quickly altered as an Allen fixes the
angle with a bolt through.

There is a new beater, too, which is
very cool (comfy felt).

I will have more to say about this
incredible pedal, soon.

And I am going to get these pics a
bunch smaller so the thread is
more manageable.

Regards,

OK. I have been so busy, with
work and all the related develop-
ments and then there is life etc.



I have just taken all the pictures
of the pedal and I am going to
re-scale them from that elephant
size to something more manageable
and this week, I will have the review
of this pedal on this board.

Regards,

PS: Gone faster than I thought.
I should have the review out in
the next day or two. I have a lot
to say about this baby.

I should start by saying a couple of
general things about the pedal. This
is a KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) design.
There is not that much to it and that
is because a lot of thought and testing
went into it. You have a pedal consisting
of a base, footboard, uprights, cam,
beater, just like any other pedal but
that is on the surface. Magnetism
drives this pedal and where it does,
is signature and key.



Let's have a look at that beautiful and
now, 3-way adjustable cam. Remember
that the older designs were not anything
like this. The link was short the cam was
fixed creating a very tight action, which
was not bad but not versatile. Now, it
is totally different.



This length is perfect and when the
pedal is depressed, it brings the cam
down and right to the point, where
you get that snap back that you have
heard me mention.



It's that slight "backwarding" that
you get with the premium pedals and
that I ALWAYS look for in a design.



Each position allows for a different
angle of that link, upon impact. One
will be more impacting and less snap.
One will be in the middle and the
other will be lighter but with
maximum snap.



Now, this thing is is about spring-less
and magnetism. The magnets are
placed underneath the footboard
and opposite the floor-board and
at a precise angle. Using an Allen,
you can slide the magnet on the
footboard to counter the floor and
change the resistance.



It's really wild. You are on one of
nature's cushions and like nature:
it always springs back at you.



It is like a pillow. Every time, it
brakes you and picks you up and
readies you for that next stroke
and it does this through the inter-
action of these magnets: First,
the ones opposing each other
on the board and base.



These magnets are really exerting.
They push back and repel and in
that action, they cushion.



You are in control. By sliding the
magnet up top, forward and back,
you create the different resistance.
and remember that you can set the
cam for that subtle change that
for me makes the entire difference.



There is another adjustment that
can be made on the magnets and
this having to do with the ones on
the upright. This allows you to
choose how much of a repulsion
there is at that location. The
changes are subtle but no less
significant. I can't say it is easy
making these Allen changes but
once you find your spot, you are
likely good to go.



So, you get a different position for
these upright magnets. See if you
feel the need to play with these.



This felt beater took me by
surprise, I must admit. It is
very light and responsive, tele-
scoping vertically, which, I think,
is essential, as the shaft cannot
go all the way through.



That plastic is just tape to protect
it from going black from the pad.



The hoop-clamp was improved
upon. Though one-positioned,
it clamps down and releases
well. It does, however, move
a little more gradually than I
would prefer but that is minor.



You can see where your Allens
are kept, there. ^



My overall impression is that the
pedal is set to perform.

1. The materials used are sturdy.

2. The board is long enough.

3. The uprights are back enough
on the base to give that "extra"
action off impact.

4. The new cam adds to that, with
the added adjust-ability.

5. The link is long enough to add
to that "extra" action off impact.

6. The clamp has been modified
as well, now very easy to use.

7. The "tension" is easily adjusted
with the use of Allens, which are
easy to keep track of since the
magnets hold them close by but
what is more important is that you
have two magnetic systems at
work. The first system is on the
base and against the footboard.
The second is up on the uprights
and that helps get the beater
back into position (just super)
and on top of it - these are also
adjustable and I am still exploring
that and hope to write on it.

8. The footprint is nice and narrow
and allows for better setup options.

9. The new beater telescopes
vertically and you know how I
important I feel that is, with the
variable hoop-sizes, these days.


What I do not like:

1. I have always hated Allens. I
lose them all the time but there,
I will forgive Mike because he has
placed the two holes in the base
which houses the lower magnet
and here: the Allens are replaced
and always being "held onto" by
the magnetism.

2. Changing the upright magnet
alignments are not easy. I have
to be careful to align the screw
perfectly, so as not to scratch the
block. You have to be careful.

3. I like a hoop-clamp that can
change position. This does not.

4. While I can set this up pretty
quick, I can set the Trick up faster.
Though, once it is set up, it is
sure quick enough.

So, there it is. I will amend it, as
it needs and will be happy to
answer questions about it. I
will try and get to it as I can,
as my workload has quadrupled.

Regards,

I continue to be amazed by the pedal. Recently, because we are moving 1100 miles away, I was in another state for over a month. No drums. Just a pair of sticks to fool around with. When I got home I couldn't wait to play, and was just blow away by how I sat down at the kit and just played quads, quints, whatever as though no time elapsed. The pedal is a phenomenon, as far as I am concerned. I have never had such an experience after being away from the set for any length of time.

Mike has been working on some things and on his last visit he brought up a DW 9000 and some other pedals not involved in my testing. I was surprised at the feel of the 9000. It is very nice and responsive. Next to the Drumnetics, the best pedal I have tried. But for me nothing can replace the centered, organic feel of the Drumnetics and the magnetic action. I have not felt anything so natural to use. It really does marry to your foot. And being away for a month and just playing as though a day had passed gave me the feeling the pedal not only responds to me, but actually helps me play better.

Mike! Hang in there, Buddy. The ship is coming in.