Damian Schmitt

Hey all,

I just received a CD by my favorite bass player, Alain Caron
that I ordered through Amazon called "Septentrion." As I
suspected, it's a burner.... Anyway, the drummer on this
project really caught my ear so I decided to look him up.

A Frenchman by the name of Damian Schmitt (actually sounds
German doesn't it?). He's pretty wicked! Check-im-out!



Spanky, You should like this one.

Yes Don,
Damien is an impressive drummer,he has a phenomenal right foot,and can play everything.years ago,he made some dates with the french fusion band "Sixun",and it was simply great.Peace,Stef

I've seen him playing with Jean Luc Ponty on youtube. Another octopus. And they make it all look so easy.

You know, Don, we can go back and forth about what is *great* in the drumming world, but I truly do believe the bar has been raised and raised again in the last few decades and so many drummers out there are doing fabulous things drummers of previous times just did not do. If those drummers were great because of their abilities, these drummers must be too. And yet, by looking at the world's stage, so many drummers now play with this kind of ability it is becoming the standard. It is becoming the norm, even among younger players. Stick tricks aside, it is truly astounding to see the drum set talent out there, and the obvious time these musicians are putting into their instrument.

And Alain Caron. I discovered him about a year ago on youtube. I instantly fired off an email to a bassist friend of mine, who was well aware of Caron. He is just a a joy to watch and listen to. I recently got a DVD of his band. The music is enjoyable. The drummer ... solid, but if Schmitt was on this DVD I'd be loving it.

I think this guy is really good,
but not that different in musicality as all the gospel guys. Don't get me wrong, his ability to execute those patterns is awesome to watch, but not really hitting me as something I would listen to for very long.

I think he just overdoes it a bit. Just because you can play all those notes,.....well..you know..

D.L.

Indeed, it all goes back to music, doesn't it? Speed is not music, if music is defined as a combination of melody, harmony and rhythm. It is how one applies facility to music to a certain degree.

The whole speed thing in music has become interesting to watch develop. But, for drummers (and other instrumentalists) it was always there. From Gene and precursors to Gene, down through the decades, speed has been a constant in drumming reality.

When I see someone doing 300 bpm on bass drums I see a lot of practice and mechanics, and I see athletic ability and all, but I really don't see or hear music. But, one will say the same thing about Gene's snare drum rolls right down through the decades, including Billy Cobham's fast tom rolls around the set and all. You really cannot get away from it and the way it hits most observing drummers. It is really nothing more than a lot of notes, not even in any kind of scale or musical context many times, but it is part of the physical nature of drumming. Of course, the same can be said for guitarists adventures into the fastest scales they can play and all. Same with a sax player.

Speed is part of modern life. Almost all of modern life is based on speeds now. Just the way it is, and fast playing by drummers will always cause heads to turn most of the time.

D.L.,

I like this guy but I have to agree with you.... I have Alain's
latest CD with him on it. And while he does a wonderful job
in relation to his playing with the rest of the band, his solos
on the CD were kind of spastic.... A LOT of the gospel chops
stuff which is why I said Spanky would like the Michael Jackson
tribute. But overall his playing on the CD is quite brilliant.

And I really like his solo in the top clip, and the second I thought
was good fun..... Made me smile.

Asaph,

My personal view is this: It's not so much what you can or can't
do, but what you do with what you have that determines your
status as a great player........ Or not....

My thing is, so what if the players of yester-year don't have the
technical facilities these kids have today, When I go to a concert or
put on a CD, I want to hear music and not an onslaught of drum chops.
I could fully agree if drums were generally meant to be a stand alone
instrument, but that's really not their basic function... But even when
Terry does it he does it in such a way that is rhythmically and tonally
interesting. It's not just a bunch of fast, thunderous chops thrown
all over the place... Can you imagine being at a show with JUST THAT
going on for 90 minutes? You'd be climbing the walls by show's end.

Again, the Standard of a great drummer will always be decided by the
music and what has been done with it by the player(s) involved, and
not by 5 and 10 minute youtube clips of ultimate drum chops with stick
tricks.

Actually, thousands of drumming enthusiasts go to shows all year, every year, around the globe, where that is about all that is done for an entire weekend. So, in the interest of not rehashing old discussion I'll let it rest. We just have a different understanding of "greatness" and its application to the instrument.

Hey, Asaph,

Just to sum it up... I think Carl Withers
said it best to Sylvester Stallone in Rocky III:

"You fight great, but I'm a great fighter."

Like a great fighter, One who has earned the right to
be called a great drummer or musical artist for that matter
has covered the wider range of avenues in his or her
profession and genra. Application may allow one to play
great or be good at what they do in a paricular circumstance.
But that application doesn't automatically make them
"great players".

If that's the case, then either most are great, or
those who do not have today's technical facilities
are not. So, where do we draw the line at "greatness?"

Thanks, man It's been fun.

D. Slam wrote:So, where do we draw the line at "greatness?"

When I can hear a guy and know instantly who he is!!! B.C.,, Virgil, Gadd, Vinnie,,, Ringo even... That's where I draw the line.

rarebit wrote:

D. Slam wrote:So, where do we draw the line at "greatness?"

When I can hear a guy and know instantly who he is!!! B.C.,, Virgil, Gadd, Vinnie,,, Ringo even... That's where I draw the line.

What can be said contrary to what you say, rare?
These are the names that we all know have earned
the right to carry the status of drumming greatness.

I'm really diggin this guy!

"When I can hear a guy and know instantly who he is!!! B.C.,, Virgil, Gadd, Vinnie,,, Ringo even... That's where I draw the line."

Having made the same basic comment on another thread a few days ago, I must admit to its weaker consideration. I am really not willing to consider "style" at the instrument the same as ability at the instrument, and call it a lone category for "greatness." Personal expression at the instrument might be called originality, if it fits, but calling it greatness, calling it great drumming, somehow fails to pull together a decent, fuller meaning for the term and the instrument, for history's sake.

For one, I would not recognize Virgil Donati's playing outright, though I believe his is a great drummer, one whose proficiency at the instrument has spawned many imitators. I have yet to hear Donati involved in a particular vehicle of music I would listen to, though. Everything I have heard sounds pretty raw and angry, or so technical and time-spun on the genre side of things it leaves me cold. That's taste, and I am beginning to see how it plays into "greatness." So, his volume of recorded work means little to me. The same could be said for many other drummers considered "great" in general. Most of the drummers who proved a big influence upon my own playing, if taken from the original groups I discovered them in, and placed in future groups they got involved with, might have just passed me right by and never "grabbed" me. The music they were in influenced the way they approached the instrument, which either allowed their abilities to really shine or in some cases dampened them or re-routed them somehow.

I consider Carl Palmer a great drummer, and one who was a major influence upon my own approach to the instrument. But if Palmer's first vehicle was Asia, and not ELP, it is unlikely he'd have become an influence. And if Palmer never played in ELP would he have had the vehicle to show greatness at the instrument?

John Bonham is considered a great, if not the greatest rock drummer of all time, by so many. How does one compare John Bonham to Elvin Jones or Max Roach or Art Blakey?

I have come to see this discussion of greatness as one which is as much surrounded by personal taste, as literal use of the term.

Great clip of Danien, btw.

For me, it's not about style, liking or disliking a thing in particular.
It's about earning the etch of being distinguished as a great player.
For instance, in my opinion since the last four drummers of Buddy Rich,
Tony Williams, Billy Coblam and Steve Gadd, there has not been anyone
else to come along and set a TOTAL innovative drumming approach as
these last four have done. Oh sure, there have been some innovative
things injected into the drumming community since but nothing that
has revolutionized the standard to drumming on such a broad scale
as these last four have given us.

In truth, you can likely hear something of these 4 players in just about
every other big name player after them.... Somehow, the influence is
likely there among someone that partains to each of these four.
I've heard some say that they don't like what Buddy does. I personally
was never that fond of Gene Krupa's style but I certainly understand and
acknowledge his contribution and am WELL aware of the standard he set
in his day. He has EARNED his place among the greats on the proving
grounds of countless recordings and performances that will forever
immortalize him.

That's what all the GREAT players have done. It's the difference between
playing great things and being a great player. And that's the reason rare
was dropping these names. He recognizes who has forged their names in
the rock of greatness, one recording, one performance at a time, long before
youtube was even a thought.

That cat is good, and that right foot is something to behold.

D. Slam wrote:For me, it's not about style, liking or disliking a thing in particular.
It's about earning the etch of being distinguished as a great player.
For instance, in my opinion since the last four drummers of Buddy Rich,
Tony Williams, Billy Coblam and Steve Gadd, there has not been anyone
else to come along and set a TOTAL innovative drumming approach as
these last four have done.



That's what all the GREAT players have done.

For me there is plenty of room for "great" besides this pantheon of drumming gods. They live in every town. We all know them, they play all the good jazz gigs in town. They aren't well known names, they are normal joes. They may not possess the business sense or opportunity some of these drumming gods had but they are innovative smokin players and that makes them great. They teach in our schools. They may not have the same audience or career as these particular drumming gods. Maybe there's some biblical metaphor here. To be fair this list of drumming "greats" would have to include Sonny Greer, Chick Webb, Clyde Stubblefield, Bernard Purdie as well as Terry Bozzio, Bill Bruford etc... Asaph has a point it really depends on personal experience, history, taste and knowledge. To each his own. I could just as well say Sunny Murray blew up the free jazz movement in drumming with his unorthodox style. Has anyone ever heard of him? not many. We could go on and on. I could list plenty of innovative trap drummers who've made big impacts all over the world Sly Dunbar, Carlton Barrett, Salif Ali...

These are the names that we all know have earned
the right to carry the status of drumming greatness.


the point is quality not quantity. And then there are the drumming gods

I'll repeat for the umpteenth time... There is a marked
difference between playing great and being a great player.
You can find countless numbers of kids that are not even in
their teens that play great (things). Try taking the time to absorb
what's said before commenting on it, otherwise you miss the whole
point behind what was meant.

I never mentioned anything about popularity. I've been around long
enough to know that there are Many unkown great players out there.
But I've also been around long enough to know better than to submit
that title to someone based on a couple of youtube clips.

It's an earned right of passage and not one based on how well we dig
on a player's chops.

Yeah, Spanky.... Damian's no joke!

I certainly have to agree with Kenny in the sense of innovators. Bozzio and the "independence" movement. Colaiuta/Weckle and "sub-division of time" movement, Donati and the whole "foot" movement. I would also have to include Palmer and Bruford and the "electronic" movement, though that isn't drumming itself, per se. Bruford may have done more for metal snare drums than any drummer in history.

If the above musicians are not great musicians in their own right, based on what they do behind a drum set and their contribution to drum artistry, greatness has been castrated somewhere along the way.

I don't know any drummer in history, or just about any musician in history not influenced by others before them. Certainly Gadd was, and Billy, too. Tony as well. They took what they learned from others and put their own personal spin on things, as many drummers have done. Personally, aside from his breaks on Aja when I first heard them back in the 70s, I have never been keenly impressed by Steve Gadd's playing, though I fully realize his influence on a whole generation of players and his contribution to recorded works. Someone like Paul Leim has played on as many or more recordings, as well as Sandy Nelson, or Hal Blaine. JR Robinson could be included in such a list a great drummers/studio players, by sheer volume of their work. They must be great to get such constant calls and their names on so many hit records. That has to be part of greatness in drumming. While simple time keeping has never made a deep impression on me it certainly has on millions of others over the decades who have purchased their work. Stubblefield and Starks. Huge influence on a generation of drummers, including Gadd. Dennis Chambers. Certainly a composite of drummers before him, and many say he is the greatest drummer who ever played the instrument. Whether or not I agree with that, his place in drumming history is in concrete. He is a great drummer by any definition or concept of the word.

If Damien Schmitt is not a great drummer, he certainly is a fantastic one, and he is but a composite of others before him, just like everybody else, no? If he basically plays the same language as he plays now, the rest of his career (because all drummers seem to key in on certain phrases and riffs they play over and over again throughout their careers in the language of drumming) will he only be great after his name is on a certain number of recordings? Or will he never be great?

I can't say I believe in the pantheon of drumming gods concept. Too many variables go into that, like luck or good fortune of a band being in the right place at the right time, business/career wise. Certainly a generation of drummers would put Neal Peart in that pantheon. Probably Lars Ulrich and Peter Criss, too, though I am not comparing the three of them. By sheer volume I would have to conclude Neal Peart has influenced more rock drummers than most older jazz greats combined. Given KISS' popularity, maybe Peter Criss inspired more kids to pick up drum sticks than Ringo.

Perhaps greatness is simply greatness is as greatness does. If it isn't what can be done on the instrument itself, in terms of ability and facility, the term seems open-ended for a number of definitions. Call me dense, but I fail to see the difference between great drumming and a great drummer, Rocky quotes considered.

An interesting thought, perhaps - Would Billy be the "great" he is if the Mahavishnu Orchestra never happened to put him in the chair of dealing with such energy and time signatures to address and propel him into greatness? Was he playing differently than with Miles or Horace? Where would Billy stand today if, say, Peter Erskine got that call, or Alphonse Mouzon? I wonder how much fate plays a roll in "greatness"?

Yeah, but Cobham was great before Mahavishnu.

Seems like every time I walk into a music store there's some kid blowing a myriad of great chops.. left foot patterns, crossover fills.. far beyond my ability. What doesn't make them one of the greats? I can tell who they copped there licks from in about 2 seconds, and I can also tell who they haven't listened to (which is just as important to me.)

A lot of these unknowns are so close to greatness, but it seems like they never obtain that stuff to propel them to that level. They never do their own thing or perhaps they do a little bit, but never take it to the point to where it takes them to that place. Heck, I'm just as guilty. I'm pretty sure I could smoke Ringo in a drum solo competition, but all the little tricks I do won't ever exceed his unique voice on the drums. That's why he's great and I'm not...unless you ask my mother.

Virgil's playing gives me a headache after about 15 minutes and then I'll go back listening to my Beatles mp3's. That doesn't at all take away from who he his as an artist. He's creativity is so far above and beyond. The guy is a freak. Modern Drummer needs to make a new poll category just for him called
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jtTlLbI2Fs

You want to see "Gospel Chops"? Come on, get serious-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NiJu4lKZBc

To me he's one of the greats and he would still be even if he was just my neighbor, never left his garage and I only heard his playing through my bedroom window @ 4:30AM.

I'm so glad I am alive in the age of youtube. Now if we can just find a way for the artists to get paid. Sorry for rambling. What a great forum this is.

I don't know any drummer in history, or just about any musician in history not influenced by others before them. Certainly Gadd was, and Billy, too. Tony as well.

Ahh, But here's the difference, who do they sound like?!
You cannot hear these influences in them.

When you listen to Weckl, Lenny, Dennis, Vinnie, etc you
can hear the influences of others in what they do
When you listen to the likes of Buddy, Tony, Billy and Steve,
Who do they sound like?! No one outside of themselves. They
can be compared to no other player. There's NEVER a conversation
about who these players sound like because they don't sound like
anyone else. You can't compare them to Damian because you can't
hear the "composites".

will he only be great after his name is on a certain number of recordings? Or will he never be great?

Let me answer that with another question: Does a sports
figure deserve to be inducted into the hall of fame after only
one or two "great" games? Those who have earned the right
to be there have done so by acheiving legendary greatness,
doing it time and time again commanding and earning the
respect of their peers year after year.

I remember when Eric Moore won the Guitar Center
drum off. In a later interview he said: "Now people
know that I can play." I remember thinking: "No, now
people know that you can win a drumming contest."

Getting back to the analogy of Rocky 3 as compared to
"great drummers."

Likewise, It' not about just the things you do in the moment
behind the drumset. I'm totally scratching my head on your
comment about Steve Gadd... Have you ever considered the
fact that it's mostly about NOT standing out as an individual
player but more about the music as a whole!

Steve's ability to literally morph his way into the music he's
involved with is Simply unmatched by ANY other drummer out
there. Knowing absolutely what to say, when, where and how
to say it. Be it a difficult pattern or something ridiculously elemetry.
Steve made it sing whatever the circumstance. Players today look
for situations that suits their abilities and needs. Steve found the
needs that weren't his own and filled them... Over and over again!

You don't have to like something to recognize that it's done well.
Likewise, the box may be pretty, but show me what's inside.
These youtube clips make "great" looking boxes.

Interesting conversation!

Originality is a good point in determination of "greatness". But believe it or not, after 1 year when I walked around in the University and heard people practicing, most of the time I knew who was practicing inside. So, it certainly has to do with whom you know and to whom you are exposed to. Therefore I guess it has a lot to do with to whom we are exposed to and that comes with many many factors. Who has the best channels to get heard? Who has the best connection and social abilities to get his name out there? So, there's no absolute greatness, it has also to do with many environmental circumstances, I think.

We learn and become who we are through copying and applying learned knowledge to our own needs and abilities. Everybody, no matter how great they are in a subject, needs knowledge from people who were around before him. Everybody is influenced by a lot of things.
For me there are all in all three different concepts people deal with learned knowledge:

*SOME people put together all the learned knowledge in a very unique way, and that creates ORIGINALITY and progression on an IDEA level.

*Others more or less copy something as exact as possible, don't arrange the knowledge newly, but PERFECT the copied knowledge on a TECHNICALLY level.

*Others more or less copy as exact as possible and don't arrange the knowledge patterns in a unique way and don't perfect the knowledge.


As the name popped up here: I think Buddy Rich was unbelievebal at pushing the technical level, but on an idea level I don't see much difference to people like Gene Krupa or Jo Jones.
Buddy Rich is quite recognizable because of his technical virtuosity.

Drummers like Elvin Jones or Paul Motian are true pioneers for me as they arranged knowledge about music/drums on an intellectual ( they came up with different ideas, maybe even subconscious) level and are unique and original - instantly recognizable.

We are all depended from each other and are all sharing common knowledge, therefore I see it all as a big family of knowledge. Everybody learns from everybody in a way, people just deal with the knowledge differently.
I love all musicians who sincerely love music and I'm glad I am able to hear and see so many different musicians playing their version of life!

Niki, some very nice comments there. Interesting, indeed.

Rarebit, indeed, creating a unique "voice" on an instrument is a great thing and something I am truly with you on. The language of drumming has many voices in it down through history, and while I may recognize a voice which "speaks" to me with great obvious nature, it may pass right by someone else in favor of another voice that does not speak so greatly to me.

I remember getting the 1984 Zildjian Day video. There's a quote from Armand on it about giving something back to drummers and allowing them to see "the greats." Vinnie is on that video, along with Gadd, Billy, Tommy Campbell and Alex Acuna. I suppose we would have had to ask Armand what he saw as greatness to know why these drummers were asked to play that day. Steve Smith is on another of those Z Days. I do not know as I would recognize Smith's playing in a blindfold test, but I certainly see him as one of the greats, a true master of the instrument.

D, I'm surprised at your comments about Tony. I remember *rediscovering* him, and Max, back in my latter 30s and hearing the definitive connection between them, and Max' influence upon Tony's playing. At the time I came up with a solo dedicated to them and the progression I heard in their playing, which also coincided with statements I read from both of them on how that historical progression works.

The Hall of Fame is an interesting concept. There may be a known and agreed to set of criteria for entrance, yet how many cycles go by before someone gets voted in, as though they are on the edge or something. They finally get enough votes, based on Writer's feelings about their careers. Some enter in with unanimous vote count, others do not, but they are still in the HoF. In baseball, different from music, stats get the overall consideration. I realize drumming comes with no stats, per se, but I do believe greatness can be seen before a total career is carved out.

I have considered all kinds of things about Steve Gadd. His career speaks for itself. His playing, and his sound, just do not speak to me the same as other drummers have. That is the mystery of music, I suppose.

I don't really follow the "box" analogy when it comes to drumming, which is not about looks at all, but physical ability and musicianship. Drum sets can have the box analogy. There have been players who have elaborate drum sets who utilize a basic five piece in their playing. A lot of it for show on a stage, I guess. Window dressing. Wrapping paper.

Buddy was an explosion on a set of drums. That was his style, for the most part. But I certainly would not say Joe Morello was not one of the greats because his playing was more subdued. I believe Roy Burns is a truly great drummer. Clean, articulate, fast, great chops, great educator, writer, businessman ... a tremendous contribution to the world of drumming. A hall of famer in my mind, but how many drummers really know of him? If not for Aquarian heads, or his column in MD, probably not many would recognize his contributions. But that man can play some fantastic drums.

I agree with Rarebit. Youtube is a library filled with greatness simply because of how individuals spoke to posters of these videos showing their abilities in various situations.

LOL! We can do this forever.... It's been fun ya'll!

I wonder if Damien plays baseball.

Lots of fun in a little dive club in Moscow.
Makes me want to start playing a single
pedal again. His solos aren't always
cohesive in the normal sense of the word
but I really dig his concepts in terms of the
different rhythmic patterns he plays.
Lightning fast and clean also.

He's a lot of fun for me to watch and listen
to. Damien is definately one of my favorites
now. And I don't have that many.



Most of all, the boy's got groove, and is an amusing showman too.