Buttkicker

Quite a device here, and probably useful in certain settings.

Never tried it myself (and likely won't), but it looks interesting for those instances where anyone is concerned about how loud everyone plays together to achieve the same results at lower volumes.

I remember a discussion some time ago about demands being placed upon drummers to play forcefully, but at lower volumes. We all had varying opinions then… and now I run across this ad in one of the periodicals.

Personally, I’d rather use controlled dynamics to achieve the same results. That’s in one’s hands and feet rather than in prosthetics. But who knows (?) … it might come in handy at some point if there’s a monitor feed available, and absolutely necessary when playing with others who don't have the same mindset.

There's much to be said for self controlled dynamics. But I could use a unit like this... I think that it's an ideal piece of equipment for drummers especially, who must physically pull back when requests start coming in to bring the music volume way down, as opposed to electric insruments that can simply turn down but play with the same technique of intensity.

Having to hold back that way and convey the intensity and character level that certain music requires can be a real challenge at times. To be truthful about it, it can get downright frustrating for me.

The music I play demands a certain level of physical force for it to be real and when you have to go in playing funk and Jazz-funk in cocktail form, It "makes me wanna hollah, throw up both my hands."

If this unit works like they say, Yeah, sure, I can see myself using one of these with no reservation.

Slam.

I know I can be a little dense at times, but I really don't understand what use this device would be to us drummers. It seems to me that if I actually start feeling my seat vibrate with the bass it would give me a false sense that the bass guitar or the kick drum are up too loud, and I would adjust my playing accordingly. I think I would probably go to the opposite extreme and play too softly then. I would prefer to hear what's actually happening myself.

Now maybe this device might be good to put underneath a player that always plays too loud for the band - maybe that would bring his volume down. Or am I not understanding the purpose of this device ? Peace, TED

Ted,

The case being that I've never used one I can't challenge your point as you may very well be right. According to my understanding, it's suppose to give the sense of a more normal kind of feel when playing softly if it works according to the way I'm thinking, it's something that makes sense to me. But again, it could be just as you understand it. Without having one to try, I can't actually say.

What I can say is for $500.00, it better do something right.

And yes, you are dense.

Slam.

Just as I figured...

Spot on Slam... some music just requires the crank and both the musicians and audience should expect that prior to the hire! I remember everyone disgusting (I mean discussing) that before.

On the one hand, in low volume settings where everybody is playing at the desired group level, it might be nice to feel the lower register (much in the same way as if having a full bodied floor monitor right next to you). On the other hand there have been times when (without having a monitor) I've encountered the fallacy that "if we can get the drummer to play softly, then everybody else will." NOT!

No, I won't be buying this unit (as nice as it seems to be for certain applications). I do like Ted's idea though to give it to the loud player(s) - then perhaps they'll turn down!

I do like Ted's idea though to give it to the loud player(s) - then perhaps they'll turn down!

Well, Unc,

That depends on why they are playing loud. For instance, guitar player generally uses smaller amps these days and they put them on the floor behind them. The sound goes underneath them between their legs, they can't hear so they turn up. Why they dont realize that angling the amp upward would not only help to solve this problem but would make better utilization of the room as far as their sound ambience is concerned is beyond me. When the guitar player turns up, I know that I for one start to play harder because I can't hear myself (especially when I play with guitar players with open back amps). Before you know it, the stage volume is way over the top.

Sorry I got a little off kilter here but I wanted to make another quick point.

Anyway, there are also players that just like to play loud simply for the sake of being loud and this unit is unlikely to help these folks. Their objective is to be loud and in such cases this unit will only inhance that problem. Again, if this unit does what I think it does I think it would be great for drummers (and also bass players) that must play softly against the music's demands, as I am guessing that it would give them that punchy feedback they'd need to feel.

Understand this also, I play in MANY situations where no one except the vocals are miked. So you don't have that kind of thumpy ambience coming back at you. There are times when I can't hear my kick drum even when it's miked, because in many instances I perform in, the use of a sub isn't the most practical thing to do. And that's really where I see that this piece would come in very handy. Understand that I perform 3 to 5 days every week so perspectives are going to differ from person to person depending on those numbers, along with what kind of shows you do.

One more thing... Though, I believe this unit is a good idea for drummers especially, definately not at $500.00. Around half that price would make it worth it for me.

Thanks for posting, Uncle,

Nephew.

I really don't feel the need for this Buttkicker myself. Notice the endorsement quote by someone in a church environment (see original graphic I posted). There are some churches requiring such control over everything that even the musicians leading the worship in song find themselves stifled these daze.

My question is, why couldn't the manufacturer/marketer rely upon an endorser in a real environment where parochial protocols are not officiating (e.g. clubs, coffee houses, private parties, etc.)?

In fairness to them though, I'd like to have this unit if playing a private party on someone's patio where the volume would need to be low and the equipment available to support the Buttkicker and the other musicians under the same constraints and the same mindset. Kind of makes me wonder what it was like back when all of these gadgets weren't even available: that was when there was integrity in the music beyond the money and target markets.

I hear ya Don. We're not too different when it comes to just playing the music!

I really don't feel the need for this Buttkicker myself. Notice the endorsement quote by someone in a church environment (see original graphic I posted). There are some churches requiring such control over everything that even the musicians leading the worship in song find themselves stifled these daze.

Though I don't feel the "need" for this. I can still see where it can help in certain situations. In all honesty, I don't "need" my china or splash cymbals, or even my double pedals they're merely extensions that inhance what I do need. I see this buttkicker from the same platform. I don't need it, but I see where I can make good use of it.

My question is, why couldn't the manufacturer/marketer rely upon an endorser in a real environment where parochial protocols are not officiating (e.g. clubs, coffee houses, private parties, etc.)?

I've played in many churches. And as far as I'm concerned they are just as real a musical enviroment as any other venue I've played. "clubs, coffee houses, private parties, etc."??? Those are the kinds of establishments I've had the most problems with in terms of those who hired the bands I've worked with, wanting to control the volume... In the churches, they let us jam!

Kind of makes me wonder what it was like back when all of these gadgets weren't even available: that was when there was integrity in the music beyond the money and target markets.

That's exactly what it was, John, "BACK!" Either keep up or get left behind. I personally know many players that when you hear them today, they have that same ole style they had "back" in the day. Music and the approaches to it is ever changing and I for one want to able to adapt so I can continue working in these diverse situations.

I'm a firm believer in musical integrity and no matter what I play through I think my listeners will always get that from me, what I do behind the kit and not because of whatever gadget I happen to be using at the time.

But I am in no means trying to be some kind of musical purist, either.... Heck, bring on the technology, man. Bring it on!

Slam.

I've always felt that ,as the drummer ,I was partly responsible for the overall volume of the group. I say that because I've found that two things determine how loud the other members play - the intensity of my ride cymbal and the intensity of my hi-hat playing. Since those are the two most frequently played cymbals in our kits, they will determine how loud the other members should play, accordingly. I say should because as we all know, not all the other instrumentalists we make music with are good listeners with regard to overall balance. And by the same token, if the drummer has no sense of dynamics or is just a plain old basher, then the whole band will be too loud the whole time. Peace, dense TED

Ted,

I've always felt that just as in keeping time, volume control is every participants responsibility. You are totally responsible for the area you have control of: The Drums. I know those who play loud regardless of how I play any particular cymbal or any other part of the kit for that matter. If the drummer is too loud then naturally everyone else is going to come up in volume, but the same can be said for any other instrument in the band.

The drummer as an intity is no more responsible for the bands volume than any other player within the group. If you feel that is your role personally, there is nothing wrong with that as long as it's not portrayed as a rule of thumb (a stigma) for all drummers. Again, just as in keeping time, that is an element that each individual must control within his or her self. When this happens, then and only then is the ideal volume and balance levels attained.

Slam.

With the general quality of live
sound rising, due to technological
advances, I think we are going to
see some interesting things happen.

For one thing, I see live acts being
more highly produced and controlled.
That is good and bad, I suppose but
in the long run, I think it good and
I say that because the better sounds
and productions are demanding that
the standard for everyone, whether
they can afford it or not, come up.
I think that's good.

Remember when clicks were not
used - time was quite elastic. Then,
they started creeping into the studios
and we had a greater demand for rock-
steady time. It's just an example.

I am one of the people that believe
that digital kits have their place in
Church halls. I say this, primarily be-
cause you are working with a prod-
uction and the players involved are
always changing. To keep things 'on
target', you have to control them.
You can control digital in a large or
small venue.

I am not sure about this gizmo and
whether it actually does help control
the situation better but any tech-
nological advance likely has its place,
somewhere, out there, in music.

In the end, I think technology re-
bounds and brings the standard for
live performance up, not down.

My view.

Admin (Pete) wrote:With the general quality of live
sound rising, due to technological
advances, I think we are going to
see some interesting things happen.

For one thing, I see live acts being
more highly produced and controlled.
That is good and bad, I suppose but
in the long run, I think it good and
I say that because the better sounds
and productions are demanding that
the standard for everyone, whether
they can afford it or not, come up.
I think that's good.

Remember when clicks were not
used - time was quite elastic. Then,
they started creeping into the studios
and we had a greater demand for rock-
steady time. It's just an example.

I am one of the people that believe
that digital kits have their place in
Church halls. I say this, primarily be-
cause you are working with a prod-
uction and the players involved are
always changing. To keep things 'on
target', you have to control them.
You can control digital in a large or
small venue.

I am not sure about this gizmo and
whether it actually does help control
the situation better but any tech-
nological advance likely has its place,
somewhere, out there, in music.

In the end, I think technology re-
bounds and brings the standard for
live performance up, not down.

My view.

In the end, I think technology re-
bounds and brings the standard for
live performance up, not down.

Well said and I totallly agree with you, Pete. your statement directly above is why I say keep up or get left behind.

Slam.

Ouick note:

This unit is actually not the first of its Kind. Remember Jazzman? Well when I was researching a possible in ear monitor setup for myself, he told me about this one setup called the "Thumper" where the ear pieces came with a unit would that be attached to the drumthrone that would create a more bottom end feel, being that there was no floor speaker to move air.

This was way back in the day when Loudjazz and a Superfluous man was among the members.

Slam.

First of all, I'm not so sure this product is even sanitary. Moreover, it's absurd. I don't want my ass rattled unnecessarily. It could be dangerous. And it might confuse the bees.