Communication

I had to tell one of my trumpet guys the other day at rehearsal his solo needed work. I tried to be tactful. i said something like, "the first 1/2 of your solo was great then the second half had some out of tuniness and clams in it (chuckles). So maybe take it slow at first and build up or something." he shrugged and took an offensive stance like his solo was worth defending. Later i said it's something we need to work on, good solos. But i don't think he liked being laughed at by the others. He was pissed at me but got over it. I understand it's hard to take criticism being laughed at even more.

Last night we played and he was very cool and his solos were noticeably more happening! So i feel like it worked out. I certainly didn't mean to offend him but it gave him some feedback. I guess my point is don't take criticism personally and try to use it in a positive way. I try to take direction when it's offered as well as i can. How do you talk to band members?

Music is an intimate personal thing. It's touchy, pointing out weaknesses. i know i have mine i don't even read music. But at least i have ears. i guess it's best to be straight up and as honest as you can. You can't always think of people's feelings first. I need to find some key phrases to explain myself One i've learned is to preceed it with,"I feel that... that way it's not stating fact but your own feeling about it. Any feedback?

Music is like marriage in many
ways and it pays to consider,
as you did, how your response
to his (others) contribution(s)
would be received.

Regards,

I guess it also depends on who is the leader of the band, if there is one. A leader can be a bit more direct and just come out with it.

when it's a band with everyone on an equal footing, then it comes down to the kind of personal relationship you have with each member. sometimes it's better to take the person aside on a break and let them know they need to work on something.

You could also say something like " let's take that one again, and this time could you try to build your solo a bit more slowly than the last time. I think it could work better that way".

I know you play several instruments Kenny , so if he respects you at all, he should listen to what you say. But to me, I usually get " shut up, you're just the drummer, not a musician". My response would then be to take a dump in their guitar case while they're not lookin.

But in all seriousness, as Pete said, being in a band is exactly like being in a marriage, so best to treat it the same.

Peace, TED

We have someone who is like the music director because he supplies alot of sheet music and technical aspects of balkan music. But we all have equal say. It's very democratic. But i am the oldest in the group so that kind of holds some clout. I really was the one who started the band idea and getting us together. But i don't have a need to be the so called leader. i enjoy just being the drummer but i do have strong opinions about how to arrange and make the music more interesting. it's really an ideal situation where everyone brings up ideas freely and we try them out. If something works we go with it.

We do a steady gig for the tango dancers in my town. they have an alternative tango night where they dance to different styles of music. The tango is improvised. You have basic techniques and then you just go for it and improvise moving together as one. It's really beautiful to see it done well. They do it to our odd time signatures mostly our slower 7s counted 123-12-12 and our slower 4/4 pieces work well. They love us. We are doing this great cumbia called bucovina that was hijacked by the serbians I think. I am really interested in having a tighter set for this tango gig of stuff that really works for them. We tried the faster 11s and 7s and they just sat there and waited until we finished so we stopped trying those. I really want to expand and mix more different grooves into what we do that isn't over most people's heads rhythmically or i should say is more familiar. Alot of modern balkan groups mix in ska reggae and jazz or whatever. Like we can do all the traditional stuff for the balkan dancers when they are there and have a more rhythmically straight ahead set for regular partyin folks. last night the music started sounding veryslow and funerial but that's kind of how tango sounds alot anyway. I want to change that and make sure it is more uplifting. But the music often has this sad melancholy thread running through it. You get a couple of those slow tearjerkers in a row and it's like who the hell died here? not the vibe i want share.

sometimes it's better to take the person aside on a break and let them know they need to work on something.

That's exactly how I feel about it, Ted.... We all have our own concepts on how we approach a certain musical situation and what we think and even strongly believe sounds good from our own vantage point even when in reality it doesn't. I know a keyboard player who is the nicest guy. He really thinks he's good but he's actually pretty horrible.... And there it is. That's my own perception. While his is entirely the opposite. How do you convince a fellow player that his or her concepts aren't happening?!

My own personal belief is that I feel I've been doing this along enough to the point that I can tell when an executed idea isn't working from a musical standpoint. How do you deal with it when that person honestly and passionately believes that it is? I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with situations like this.

Sometimes, Don (the guitar player and leader of the Joint Chiefs) will have me change something I do, and it's a change that I really don't agree with. Yet, the position I take is he's the leader of the band and I'll play what he wants. especially if he's singing lead on the song. I figure why trip and get all bent out of shape over such a thing. I can just as easily play what he wants as it sure doesn't take anything from my abilities.

It can be a touchy situation with some folks, though.... And being put in a place where your peers are laughing at you only compounds the issue.

D.

" I really was the one who started the band idea and getting us together. But i don't have a need to be the so called leader. i enjoy just being the drummer but i do have strong opinions about how to arrange and make the music more interesting. "

Kenny, those two sentences sort of define the situation with this one of your bands. It's your concept, and you put it together. And the way you described the music in the later sentences indicates that you've put a great deal of thought into it, and have a definite idea what you want to do. I think at the next rehearsal you ought to just announce to everyone that " although I want everyone to have unlimited input into what we're putting out, I would aprreciate it if you guys would be willing to take some musical direction from me. I picked you guys because I feel you can bring my concept to life as a band, but occasionally I need to steer the course to keep things sailing smooth. So if I give direction, please don't take it as criticism but rather as an attempt to help things sound the best they can ".

or words to that effect.

And the other overridng factor is this : who booked the gig ?? If it's an agent that's one thing, but whoever books the gig calls the shots. At least that's the way I've always worked it with my bands.

Would be great if Boomer could wade in on this thread, as he has been in that situation for a great many years.

Peace, TED

And the other overridng factor is this : who booked the gig ?? If it's an agent that's one thing, but whoever books the gig calls the shots. At least that's the way I've always worked it with my bands.

That's an iffy one for me, Ted.... I would think that whomever booked the gig would be the go to person for that gig. It doesn't mean the band's concept should or would necessarily change to that person's hand.

I've booked gigs with the Chiefs, but the general music concept that Don (the guitar player) established for the band never changes.

Just me...

D.

I actually like that concept, I booked the gig therefore will have artistic control over it. Obviously if people have issues they get worked out and no one is forced to play anything they don't want to play. I think it's good to allow different members to assert their control for certain situations.For a more democratic approach I've tried this idea: ask each member to write up a setlist of what they would consider a good set or night of music. Then compare notes and come to some agreements that way. It's all about flow to me. i want every song to dovetail right into the next with little or no time in between. Sometimes you want to have pauses to talk and explain what you're playing and other times you don't feel the need to explain and let the music do the splainin.

kenny wrote:I actually like that concept, I booked the gig therefore will have artistic control over it. Obviously if people have issues they get worked out and no one is forced to play anything they don't want to play. I think it's good to allow different members to assert their control for certain situations.For a more democratic approach I've tried this idea: ask each member to write up a setlist of what they would consider a good set or night of music. Then compare notes and come to some agreements that way. It's all about flow to me. i want every song to dovetail right into the next with little or no time in between. Sometimes you want to have pauses to talk and explain what you're playing and other times you don't feel the need to explain and let the music do the splainin.

The Joint Chiefs is a musical organization that has been together for over 15 years. I've been with the band for a little over 3 of those years.
The general musical direction of the band is not going to change just because I or any other member happens to book a gig. We do what we do
because that's who we are, not because a particular person booked a gig. It's a band established concept of direction and that concept and
direction doesn't change every time a particular member books a gig.

The person that books the gig is the person of contact. but we don't change our band format around because of that. If your sound is eclectic
to begin then that's one thing.... This unit isn't like that. The musical established concepts remains steadfast regardless of who booked the gig.

D.

Don, you're in an established situation which you joined knowing who the leader is and what style of music you'd be playing.

With Kenny's situation, there is no established leader so he's trying to figure out how to control the music for the tango gig that he's booked. Since he booked it, and has the concept of what will work for that steady gig, he should have control over what goes down. In his case, the "he who books is boss "rule will work.

The idea of letting everyone suggest a setlist is a good one, though you will undoubtedly get as many different ones, as there are members in the band. You will still have to choose the best compromise to fit your concept.

Just tell them if they can get you guys a gig at another venue, then whoever books it can get their way with the setlist and direction. It will give them incentive to find more work !

Peace, TED

Yes, Ted,

As I said before, if your format is eclectic then that's understandable... Then you just play all over and play whatever you want. I don't know how marketably feasable that is for a group but I guess it could work.

it's funny last night at rehearsal someone brought in a piece of music and i was skeptical. It is a wierd concept of changing a beautiful scottish ballad from 4/4 to 7/8. It works and sounds cool but does it fit in our group's repetoire? Not sure but this particular band is open to everyone's creativity and we may start playing it for certain more eclectic gigs. I suggested someone write a bulgarian sounding melody or break to throw in it and really trip it out. We'll see where it goes but for now it's a nice opportunity to challange each other musically and not worry about the outcome.


Are you always happy with the song order with your band? Sometimes a small suggestion could go a long way to make the set flow for you in some way. Like who solos when or suggest they learn a song you would really like to play. Stuff like that could be dicussed beforehand and put on paper. Sometimes we have to take a little initiative to help the band grow in a direction you'd like to see. And sometimes it's best to play the drums and not worry about it. If you're happy to play mustang sally everytime that's cool. If it works for you that's great! If you put the right energy and feeling into it, it gets results everytime.

I realise sometimes too many cooks can spoil the formula. If the formula works why mess with it. I just joined a jerry garcia tribute band. It seems lame but it's actually really fun to play. Everybody sings along and it's a good time. It speaks to my sense of traditional music to play what people want to hear and are familiar with. I don't have to push the envelope too far or try to impress anyone with my chops or knowledge but it surely has plenty of room for that within it as well. That's what the deadheads want, group improvisation and going out on a limb so, i can do that, it's what i've always done. I am really glad I can come from a more grounded place musically than I did 20 years ago. Instead of always being out front with the drums, I now know how to create a strong foundation but i do need to keep it improvisational when called for. I'm up for the challenge. It took me a long time to figure out to stay out of the way of the song and be less busy. Now they want me to be more busy again. Fine but look out suckers!! they don't know what they're gettin into. Buddy rich and boomer are probably my all time biggest original influences!! I am way competitive and crazy when it comes to improv!! I'm gonna leave them in the dust. Hey wait maybe i should just try to fit in.

Ted E. Bear wrote:

With Kenny's situation, there is no established leader so he's trying to figure out how to control the music for the tango gig that he's booked. Since he booked it, and has the concept of what will work for that steady gig, he should have control over what goes down. In his case, the "he who books is boss "rule will work.

The idea of letting everyone suggest a setlist is a good one, though you will undoubtedly get as many different ones, as there are members in the band. You will still have to choose the best compromise to fit your concept.

Just tell them if they can get you guys a gig at another venue, then whoever books it can get their way with the setlist and direction. It will give them incentive to find more work !

Peace, TED

Well I guess we do have a leader in reality and he is extremely opinionated on some levels. He likes to be totally in the tradtions and not mess with the formulas at all. I sometimes suggest we do tunes that are very hard to play and he blows them off because he doesn't want to hurt his lip! Sometimes the tunes are originally played on a stringed instrument and don't lay well on the trumpet. These certain intervallic jumps are extremely difficult to pull off on a horn with three valves! But that is how i see us as being able to be different and apart from the pack. it doesn't always go over well. It's a struggle and i am considering having an offshoot band that would tackle the tunes i want to do and not have to deal with resistance to them. check out this band from new york city sometime if you get a chance.

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