Ted, Visions Of An Inner Mounting Apocalypse.

Hi Ted,

Are you familiar with this cd? It features Vinnie Calaiuta, Kai Eckhardt, Mitchel Foreman with Jerry Goodman. They do 10 classic M.O. tunes from I believe three of M.O's albums: the cd feature 10 different guitar players (one for each song):

Steve Lukether
Mike Stern
Steve Morse
Jimmy Herring
Jeff Richman

Frank Gambale
Warren Haynes
David Fiuczynski
Greg Howe
John Ambercrombie

2005 release.

I was Turned onto this just yesterday... Good stuff, fun listening... M.O. with a much tighter feel. If I know you though, this is probably already in your musical archives...

Jerry's still smokin!

D.

Yes, it's been in the archives for 4 years ! Some great playing on that CD. It's a nice tribute as tributes go. I'm sure we said something about it on the site back then.

But when all is said and done, it's not as good as the original IMHO.

Peace, TED

Yes Ted is not like the Power of the Original.
It should be able to stand up on its own,
as you know these CD's do not sell enough.
I was hoping for a extended version, to come out,
with more solos.


I hope John and Abstract Logix can
get the Mahavishnu Live recording that has been held back
on legal problems.


________________________

Outtasight
Colin.

But when all is said and done, it's not as good as the original IMHO.

Agreed, Ted. But VERY seldom is that the case if ever.

They did a good job though. No one slouched... I enjoyed listening to this more than once
And I really enjoyed the guitar playing, which is a bit more than I can say about the original
music. As you know, I had a bit of a hard time dealing with John's tone.

Funny thing though I LOVE "Between nothingness & eternity". My favorite MO album.

Go figure...

D.

I agree with you, D. John isn't setting the world on fire with his playing! I think he's a much better acoustic player than electric...

Give me the "Godfathers" of Fusion any day...Hendrix, Larry Coryell, Al Di Meola, Tommy Bolin, Bill Connors...etc.

Fuzit, I have a live cd somewhere of JM playing with Dennis Chambers and sax player. I can't quite remember who else is on this CD, nor can I remember the name of it... I'm going to have to look it up.... Anyway, the band and it's instrumentation has a much more contemporary sound.... That is until John starts to solo with that harsh, piercing tone! It just kills the feel and flow of the music for me and it sounds so out of place... I agree with you though, I think JM plays a beautiful acoustic guitar.

I can listen only to so much original M.O. (two songs at one sitting tops) before having to turn it off. It didn't bother me so much when I was younger, But now.....

Well I can tell from your answer Don and vrom previous ones over time, that you really don't care much for a rock guitar sound. You have said you didn't care for Hendrix in the past, who certainly had a unique rock sounding guitar which employed feedback. Played very loud. John M. and the original M.O. also played very, very loud. that was part of the total effect. I feel safe in saying that had you ever seen the original band, you probably would have been running out of the arena ! LOL Some people, in fact, did. [ I bet Boomer is laughing right now at the image of you running away in terror ! ]

I have a dear friend who is a keyboardist who tells me the story that the one time he went to see the M.O. at the Capital Theatre in Passaic , New Jersey, he arrived a little late. The band had already started and he and another friend walked in to the little vestibule before the orchestra seats. He immediately FROZE ! He had never seen them before and knew only a little of their music. But he went at the urging of myself and others to "check them out". He told me he had never heard anything like that in his life ! He thought there were ALIENS playing in the hall and was scared to go in . I still laugh when I think about it.

So I understand why you wouldn't, and don't , like John's sound. You're entitled ! I don't happen to like John's sound when he has used the synthesized guitar, which he might be doing on his forthcoming album, I'm told. But I love his sound in the M.O. and yes, his acoustic playing is also breathtaking !

And I also must respectfully disagree with you too Fuzit on yor opinion. You're entitled to like whatever playing pleases you , of course. BUT JImi Hendrix and Tommy Bolin were never fusion players - I never saw Hendrix live unfortunately but he is the greatest Rock guitarist of all time, who comes from a blues background. I saw Tommy twice - once with Zephyr and once with his own band [ with Narada on drums ]. Another excellent rock guitarist, not fusion.

Larry Coryell was a peer of John M. and he is one of the original "fusion" players with Eleventh House. Bill Connors and Al were fusion players, yes, but they both listened and learned from John M. , so I would not consider them "godfathers". Just my opinion, of course .

Peace, TED

But I do like rock guitar, Ted... I for one wouldn't consider John's tone nor his style that of the classic rock era... Led Zepplin, Rush, Edgar Winter..... I love that style.... I love Jimmi's playing also. I just never really thought his music as a whole was that strong nor many of the players he worked with. But Jimmi could play, there's no doubt about that. In hindsight, I just didn't grow up on that side of the musical tracks.

Loud is cool, but ear splitting is unacceptable to me. I have a friend who saw the M.O. in Santa Barbara, and yes, he said they were very loud. I actually think what John did with the band worked... He's just a little too one dimensional for me when it comes to electric guitar. And you're probably right about me going to see MO, Ted. I can't even listen to an entire album. I can surely see me sprinting out of the venue during one of their live performances.

I went to go see Bobby and the Midnights once sometime during the 80's. I never really cared for the band or the music but went because Billy was with them. B.C. couldn't save them that night.... I hightailed it outta there at the start of the third song!

Just bein' me, man.

Jimi not a Fusion player? Ted, Jiimi, along with groups like The Soft Machine, created Fusion before it was called Fusion in merry ole England during the early 60's. It was called "Jazz-Rock" back then.

"Third Stone From The Sun," (Jaco's favorite) "Up From The Skies," "If 6 Was 9" & "Rainy Day/Still Raining" sure sounds like early Fusion to me!

Yes, Jimi was the greatest Rock guitarist ever, but he also laid the groundwork for Fusion with his creativity.

Colin old chap, back me up on this!

Well Fuzit, first we must look at what our definition of " fusion" is. To me, it is jazz played with the power of rock. It means incorporating jazz changes in the songs. Little if any vocals are present [ there are exceptions like Michal Urbaniak with Ursula Dudziak, and some stuff by Flora Purim and Gayle Moran. Many solos with odd meter time changes are the norm.

Jimi Hendrix and Soft machine did not start fusion. Miles Davis did with either A Silent Way or Bitches Brew- still open to debate on that one.

I would consider Soft Machine closer to fusion than Jimi simply because they played jazz changes with rock power. But they also played what I would term "psychedelic " music , as did Jimi. Not fusion, by my definition.

While I love a lot of the music that has come out of Jolly Old, none of it originated there. Rock, Blues, Jazz and Country are all American created, plain and simple. Your bluesmen like John mayall, Alexis Corner and Eric Clapton got it from Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Howling Wolf, etc. . The Beatles were heavily influenced by Buddy Holly & the Crickets, Elvis and the Isley Brothers. Jazz??? How about Louis Armstrong or Duke Ellington for starters. Country ? Too many to mention- just look up the grand ol opry hall of Fame. EVen punk rock- the Sex Pistols got it from The Ramones.

To me when I think fusion, I think Miles Davis and all who came from him - the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Weather Report, Eleventh House and so on.

Feel free to disagree. You can also thank America for the freedom to do that ! With love,

Peace, TED

It's all good, Ted. We can respectfully agree to disagree. I catch flak 99 percent of the time when I bring up Jimi and how he relates to Fusion...I know there's one thing we can agree on, we're blessed to live in the US of A!

i think it was mitch who brought the jazz chops to the hendrix experience.
i agree with ted that it takes a jazz background to make meaningful jazz/rock fusion. Jimi was fusing psychedelia with R&B so that is a fusion of sorts. But it was mitch who really gave it the jazzfeel. So the hendrix experience was an early jazz rock fusion: mitch/jimi. but let's not forget that jimi was influencing john mcLaughlin and miles at the time. on his recording Devotion, mclaughlin was trying to be more Jimi-like! Miles loved jimi, tried to dress like him and cop an original modern flair.
i think this same argument can be made for frank zappa. he was influencing so many artists at the time and hired the likes of jean-luc Ponty and george duke, jazzmen to the bone. So in my estimation frank and jimi are heavily involved in the fusion movement as inspiration to jazzmen to break out of their standard forms and start being more modern and original. No one person creates a musical movement, people work together to make new waves yet there are always those peculiar savants who actually do create new styles. Drummers like Tony W, Bellson, boomer, gadd helped create what is fusion. Coryell says jimi copped his ideas on guitar tone! yeah okay larry if you say so! Larry coryell godfather of modern guitar? i think not!

My point exactly, Kenny! You have to have some pretty bad ears not to hear the influence Jimi & The Experience had on the Jazz artist of that day looking to expand into something new.

i don't totally dismiss soft machine. they were influenced by Zappa and Cecil Taylor among others. They were fooling around improvising with be bop rhythm in a rock context in the 60's. if there is one musician that to me is the figurehead of a musical movement it would be Coltrane. He was looking into eastern modalities before mahavishnu got his first tilak. every great jazz guitarist cites coltrane as a strong influence. of course miles is a factor as his groups spawned so many leading electric fusion groups but it's more complex than saying miles started it. Miles was also being influenced by the classical modernists and electronic music pioneers of the time like stockhausen. And it's not as if joe zawinul or chick corea were dummies either . As far as electric jazz we can look way back to charlie christian with Charlie parker! and les Paul. Tony Williams and jack bruce probably had as much to do with fusion as anyone bringing Mclaughlin into Lifetime. Miles might have had top billing on the records but his guys were bright and not slouches. I'm just saying it took a village to raise a new genre. Didn't tony get Mclaughlin the gig with miles? Or Boomer himself started fusion on jack johnson! I don't think it is possible to pinpoint something like a zeitgeist. the technology was on the table and people used it.

i just got back from beautiful Maui. it is great over there!! check it out!!!!