Woody, as an owner of one, would you agree with this?!

Hi, Woodman,

Someone, was asking about an E-kit... Below is my response. I'm curious to know your feelings through your experiences with these units which are much more involved than my own.

Thanks, Woody.

"I love sitting down behind these e-kits and just playing all day long. What I really like about them is all the diverse settings and play along features available as they'll make you want to just play, and play and play!!!

However, there is much to consider when purchasing one of these units with the intentions of live performance. They don't move air, and because of this you don't feel them as readily without a really good monitoring system that works for the one behind the kit as well as the rest of the band members.... Such a sound reinforcement system can run into a whole lot of extra money and these kits alone are extremely expensive in their own right.

Another thing that at least I had to be aware of is they can sort of lull you into a false since of drumming security. All the wonderfully balanced and compressed studio quality sounds can give you a since of sounding better than you really are... You play these things a lot and then go sit down behind an A-kit, it's kind of like, WHOA, what the hell just happened??!! So keep yourself in check. In any case though, I think they make a wonderful practice tool and once you come to understand them, yourself and your roll with them they can and will make a great live performance tool as well... Let me also point out that my own personal opinion is that purchasing anything less that a Roland-TD series E-kit is really just a waste of your money. These drums are so head and shoulders above anything else in the electronic drum class that it ain't even funny.

Now with all that said, I want to add that there is nothing like the REAL DEAL!
Acoustic drums will never, ever be replaced!

D."

I second the last part, Don. There is nothing like the real deal.

I agree with everything he said, Don.
He pretty much hit the nail on the head about the Roland E-drums.
Although I don't believe they will affect your playing on a acoustic kit.
And I also agree that nothing will replace an acoustic set.
Each one has it's own application in the drumming community.

E-drums don't have the "presence" of an acoustic kit and I've only used my e-kit on a couple of live gigs, to date.
Mostly I use them as a practice tool.

I agree with everything he said, Don.

Woody, it was I who wrote that. And I also don't believe they will effect anyone's playing, per'se. But I do believe that playing them a lot without playing acoustic drums for a good spell and then playing them can be somewhat of a rude awakening.

I know that you are one that fully understands the differences between the two and will not run into this issue. Some say that e-drums will tell on you. I disagree with that. I think that it's the acoustic drums that will tell you what time it really is. My philosophy is that with a-drums, what you hit is what you git.... There aren't any nicely balanced compressed drum sounds that make everything feel and sound nice. You screw up on acoustic drums and everyone's gonna know it.

Hi, Billy,

Great to read you! I'll email you.

Don.

But I do believe that playing them a lot without playing acoustic drums for a good spell and then playing them can be somewhat of a rude awakening.



Don.

I don't know about that statement, Don.
I really don't see any difference as you are going through the same motions of playing, be it acoustic or electronic.
The only difference would be to your ears.

The only difference would be to your ears.

Precisely my point, Woodman, which could have a psychological effect on some. Speaking for myself, when the drums sound and feel better, I at least feel I'm playing better. I get noticeably better feel and audio feedback from playing an e-kit through a nice speaker system than I do when I play acoustic drums out in my garage with no sound reinforcement. On stage with everything miked or in the studio, then it becomes a different story where acoustic drums are concerned. But with e-drums, these sounds are right there at a convenient push of a couple of buttons. They are always going to sound perfect almost regardless of where they are struck.

That has been my own experience anyway...

Maybe Ted can chime in with his thoughts on the matter.
We all know what Boomer said is correct.

Are you going to buy an e-kit, Don !!!

I'd really like to have one, Woody. I believe they make an excellent practice and likely a good performance tool for anyone willing to spend the time and money in assembling the right sound reinforcement system. Considering the unit I'd really like to have and that I likely would not ever use it in it's full capacity in a live situation, I can't justify spending between 5 and 6 grand on this. It'd be nice to find one for a good price. Maybe even consider using a lesser model...

Still up in the air, Woodman. But I am kicking the thought around.

I think a big difference is also in the feel. The way the stick triggers the electronics vs the way a stick hits a drum. Totally different thing. But you get used to it. Drums have some give where a rubber pad does not. V drums is like playing on little drumstick trampolines. maybe too bouncy! I for one will probably never own a e kit although i have a roland octopad. The nice thing is you can put the headphones on and wail away into the wee hours.
For reggae and modern electronic funk and whatnot it could be the way to go for some people. You can have lots of preset kits and have that kind of variety. What you don't have so much is in response or being able to create an infinite variety of natural dynamic sounds like you can on an acoustic drum. If i want a ringy rimshot I won't get that the same way on a synthetic pad. it's not for me. it's not my direction musically. But i could see the benefits in a large venue and for certain types of music. I just finished recording on an album where i replaced all their synthetic drumset sounds with acoustic drums. We think the acoustic drums gave it a certain depth that the synthetics didn't have. my 2 drachmas

very true, Kenny.
I think that you can't compare the two to each other.
E-drums aren't acoustic and acoustic aren't e-drums.
They are two different musical instruments that have their own application in the drummers world.
You can't compare apples to oranges, but some people still try to.

You know I love you, Woody... But I have to disagree with that. The comparisons can be made, they're just going to yield different results. i e, when hitting an electronic pad it feels this way as compared to hitting a real drum head. When driving a Cadillac, one will find it handles differently when compared to driving a Lamborghini. You're going to get at least two different results while approaching these two animals in the same fashion.

It doesn't mean that they can't be compared, it only means that the characteristics between them will be different when compared through a similar approach. Keep in mind too that the similarities between them will be revealed also. And in this case the similarities do exist, and what the two kits have in common automatically makes them comparable.

That's my view anyway, Woodman.

You have your opinion, Don, and I value it.
But.... you can compare an acoustic set to another acoustic set because that is what they are.
An E-drum is not an acoustic drum set, so....... how can you compare them with each other.
They are not the same instrument.
Like I said, it's like comparing an apple to an orange.
Technically, Don, you can make comparisons to them, but, they are two separate musical instruments.
An acoustic set will never be an electronic set and an electronic set will never be an acoustic set.
Period.

I hear where you're coming from, Woodman, I really do... I guess what I'm saying is I believe that the differences as well as the similarities can be discovered through comparison. In actually, Woody, your conclusion that these kits cannot be compared came through an assessment after playing them both. whether consciously or unconsciously that assessment came through a discovery of the differences through comparison... Can an acoustic guitar be compared to an electric guitar? I believe it can. When you play one then put it down and play the other you will discover those things which are uncommon between the two as well as those that are common.

Can e-kits be used in the same fashion as a-kits, gigs, studio sessions, band rehearsals, personal practice, etc?! Well, yeah, sure they can. From where I sit, they are actually more similar and have more in common with each other than not. Should a player that plays an e-kit exclusively not be considered a drummer?! Why not?! What is he or she doing any differently than the person playing an a-kit outside of plugging it up and turning it on and having other sound resources at his or her fingertips? Yes, there are very real and noticeable differences but what I cannot see is what makes these differences so drastic to the point that they can't be compared to one another?

Again, I hear ya, Woody.... At worst, we agree that we disagree. Now, go buy me an e-kit!

Don.

Good points made by both of you, Woody and Don. and of course, you too, Billy. From my perspective, I happen to love both my a kit and my e-kit. Like Woody, I use the e-kit primarily for practicing, but also for recording into my DAW in my computer. The main advantage with that being perfect sound with absolutely no problems with bleed thru that you would get with mikes.

Kenny made the point about V drums being like playing little trampolines. Good description , but that depends on how you have the mesh head tuned. I find that the bounce on the mesh heads is very very close to an acoustic head. I don't like the rubber heads at all, and playing on them for a while starts to hurt the hands. I just recently bought all mesh heads for my it. It's a low end TD6 but it still cost a few thousand. The TD-20 is the flagship but I don't have $6,000. I think Roland has the best e-drums, though hart dynamic has nice cymbals. Pete has Yamaha's so he can chime in about them.

I think both e-drums and acoustics have their place, though I've yet to use my e-kit for a gig. the one big difference for me is the feel of the cymbals. E drums just don't come near the feel of a real cymbal. And the dynamics on an e-kit are harder to control than an acoustic. At least on the low end kits. the TD 20 really, really comes close to an acoustic kit.

A lot of drummers, including Boomer occasionally will have a few e pads in addition to their acoustic kits for added percussion sounds. The great thing about an e-drum is that you can chnage them to sound llike anything contained in the brain . My TD6 has over 1.000 sounds . Can't get that with a drum

So in conclusion I'd have to say I'm happy having both, and I don't think playing one hurts the other. If you can play, then you can make tin cans sound good.

Peace, TED

I have to admit i do enjoy the one big benefit of e drums. It not only gives you preset drum set-ups but, it's the options for randomness as far as sounds that you wouldn't normally have available. And i mean the kind of random improvisation that you can do with electronics with a remote foot switch to change the sounds somewhat randomly. You know sometimes there is magic in what comes up through the use of randomness you might fall into or stumble upon musical motifs you wouldn't have expected.

the roland octopad is good for stuff from tympanic sounds to electronic noises. I mean if i was going to be a blip hop musician i would use it more.
I do enjoy messing around with the e drums at my friends house. i guess it doesn't inspire me to play the kind of things i want to do in a way it's really down to my direction. i play hand drums i like traditional old ways but i also dig the new toys like any other kid in a candy shop.
There is a drummer who comes over and plays hard rock on them and it is definitely the combination of his style and sound he gets that is different. it's tight and punchy. it's a modern sound i don't really dig most of what he plays but the sound is undeniably modern and fresh. For some funk,reggae and slick dance/house music it could be useful. it makes sense that these instruments and their musics keep evolving. You convinced me i've been thinking of brushing off the octopad and maybe get a bass drum trigger for it. That way i could have the benefits of electronics within the acoustic kit as i have experimented with in the past. fusion of sorts I've been mixing it up with a friend who does recording and electronica and i give him the raw acoustic material and we loop things. it's been really fun. i think the electronic pads would meld with where he is coming from musically. he has all that stuff too but it would be good to bring mine and we could have more live electronics so to speak. more in the miles davis experimental mode open to whatever comes out of it. And maybe i would even incorperate it into playing balkan and celtic traditional music or even jazz with a modern approach. ya gotta at least stay a little up on what is goin on out there.

They're very cool. And if the cost wasn't so high, I'd probably have one. I do have a TD-6 brain, a Kat double kick pad, a Dauz pad that I use for the snare and two of the hard Roland rubber pads that I use for toms. The TD-6 brain is cool and the pads work fine but it sure doesn't measure up to the higher end models.

I had actually incorporated this system into one of my acoustic kits I had set up in my garage. I think I'll work my way back in that direction. Who knows?! If I ever get to the point where money is hardly an object, I'll buy a nice one. The possibilities with these units are virtually endless. And I understand the differences enough to enjoy both kits immensely.

Right, Don.
Actually, everything that everyone said is correct about the E-drums.
They have their place as a viable musical instrument and I don't think they're going away any time soon.
Yes, if you are to get an electronic drumset only go for the best that you can afford.
I took out a loan to buy my Roland V-session V-drums in 2000.
It took me three years to pay off that loan and I don't have any regrets about doing that.
At that time it was around $5,000-6,000 and was the top of the line.
Since then they have come out with the TD-20 module and drums with a list of around $7,000
So yes, they are not cheap, but, as the old adage says, you get what you pay for.
As a practice tool they are invaluable, to me at least.
You ARE going through the same motions with an e-kit as with an A-kit and this is why I don't have a problem going from one to another.
Your body is doing the same things with both.

Don, if you start playing on a mesh head pad, you'll throw the rubber ones away. The difference is really night and day.. If you get the chance, and haven't already done so, try one out at your local music store. The TD6 is compatible with all of them and you will definitely enjoy the difference !






Peace, TED

Yes, I've actually worked with them many times, Ted... From the TD-6 on up to what they have currently and the mesh heads are great! Never thought to check into the individual mesh units though. How much do they run, Can you post some pics of your setup?

the 8" ones are PD- 85's and they run $260 apiece plus a mounting bracket.


the 10" ones are PD - 105"s and they run $360 each plus bracket.

the 12" one is probably another $100 more.


I use the 10 for my snare and the rest are 8"s . I will have to take some photos of the kit as I do not have any at the moment. I'm actually waiting on some mounts so I can add the rubber pads along with what I now have. I will make those pads percussion devices. When i do that I will take some photos and post them !


Peace, TED

Man! Like Chris Rock used to say on Living Color as the character, "Cheap Pete": "Good Lawd das a lotta moneh!"
I won't be buying any individual mesh pads that's for sure. With the capacity that I'd be using them which would mainly be integration, the cost just isn't worth it to me.

The hard rubber pads will suffice just fine.

I'd still like to see your setup none the less, Ted.

I admit I did not get through reading the entire thread, so my apology if I skimmed-passed anything said that would contridict or inform me of my reply here. I just got back from a vacation/business trip in Seattle and am a bit tired. I caught a cold there and followed my home

Thank you


I do agreee with D on his description of how e-drums can benifit, to some degree, performance on a acoustic kit. For me just simply put; it aids in keeping the limbs warm and ready. Outside of that, well, it serves it's purpose mainly for practice or studio effects - but that could be a bias conclutions of mine.
I personally know a guy that started practicing and later playing live gigs having edrums as his main kit and he sounds incredible. He later tried acoustics and sounded fair but not as great as he did on edrums...interesting I would say. I brought that to his attention and his reaction was on the defense.

rac

I personally know a guy that started practicing and later playing live gigs having edrums as his main kit and he sounds incredible. He later tried acoustics and sounded fair but not as great as he did on edrums...interesting I would say. I brought that to his attention and his reaction was on the defense.

Hi, Rac,

Hope you're feeling better. Yes, I can definitely see how that could happen. E-drums are basically designed to sound good no matter where you hit them and they are not touch (area wise) and dynamically sensitive as real drums. You make the same mistakes on a-drums as you do with e-drums and everybody's gonna hear it. Where as on e-drums you might get away with much of them.