Question for Billy re. ambidexterity

Billy - There is a discussion over at http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/55645-switch-to-open-hand/page__st__20 in which it is asserted that you started out leading on a left-side ride cymbal with your left hand while using a trad right-handed grip on the snare, and later gravitated to matched-grip/ambidexterous. Evidence offered is the late 60's Horace Silver clip on You Tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2VYKgFBH3A&feature=player_embedded . Would you please set the record straight? Thanks.

pLee wrote:Billy - There is a discussion over at http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/55645-switch-to-open-hand/page__st__20 in which it is asserted that you started out leading on a left-side ride cymbal with your left hand while using a trad right-handed grip on the snare, and later gravitated to matched-grip/ambidexterous. Evidence offered is the late 60's Horace Silver clip on You Tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2VYKgFBH3A&feature=player_embedded . Would you please set the record straight? Thanks.

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Here's a quote from the DFO forumite that will clarify the issue:

"The fact is there is not a single significant open hand player - that isn't/wasn't primarily a left-handed player to begin with. Most, if not all, of them came to play open handed as a compromise in order to survive in a world of sitting-in and subbing on right handed drum kits. So basically not a single one of them is playing the ride pattern with their weak hand - in fact just the opposite... they are all playing it with their strong hand... that's why they are playing open handed! So they can use their strong hand on the ride/hat pattern, while playing a right handed kit."

So, Billy, were you inately a left-handed player to begin with?

Hello plee,
My apology for commenting before Boomer but I'm also anticipating his response. I think you have a great question here.

Just the past 8 months, once a week, I've been leading with my left (weaker by nature) and am very impressed of how much more it has added to my playing in terms of having easier access moving into the toms (high to floor toms). It also has a nice feel (when happening) when playing straight-ahead fours as in rock. I found it easier to apply in a rock venue than in a jazz or fusion venue being that the ride hand is more complex and not as structured or predictable as straight rock. But I'm so glad this is finally happening for me because I wanted it to work a long time ago. In the begining of course it was alternating from right to left due to the confidence level subsiding. But I would always try to come back with that left lead. Then suddenly one night it all just gelled together as I would continue to risk leading with that hand. Sub-consciously, it was Boomer then Lenny White that really inspired me in doing that. I recall Boomer's suggestion was to start things that you normally do with your stronger then shift it to your left - like hitting a baseball with your weaker hand going into the hit. That's finally paying off here.

I'm out and await Boomer here.

Great rekindling of an older thread here.

rac

When I first began playing the drums I played as a conventional right handed player. I had trouble playing the hihat because I did not like cross sticking so I tinkered with alternatives until I ended up playing with a matched grip approach. Today, I still approach the drum set from the right side but equally from the left side. I like to begin many of my patterns from the snare drum and I don't believe that one's performance should be governed by the way one holds the drum sticks abut more as how one attacks the drums from any angle while performing at the drum set.

Boomer

I lead with both mostly left hand lead, even though I am right handed. I only started doing left hand lead about 6 years ago. Now there are certain times and certain songs where I go back to right hand lead. Some songs I like the feel of crossing my hands, like doing James Brown stuff. But I like going back and forth that is why I keep a ride on the left and the right. And with me also it depends on how I feel that day, sometimes It is a right hand lead day, but it is never as much as the left. And where did I get this open hand playing ? None other than Boomer. He is the first that I saw do it on in concert around 71 or 72, even though there were 2 others Sandy Mckee of Cold Blood and the Beach Boys drummer, Billy was the first that I saw do it. And as Dennis Chambers said, that is really the correct way to play. Now it is natural to play that way and keeps my right hand open on the kit.

I'm glad to see folks sharing about this topic and wanted to contribute my experience with everyone's application when performing at the drum kit.

For me, it was eventually adapting the "hand to hand" combinations of "musical rudiments" so that no matter what hand begins a pattern on whatever surface, the rhythm pattern will remain true within the time signature and meter of the piece. Now I admit, that was easier 'said' by me than accomplished over the course of my experience and loving music.

Perhaps the most significant recommendation given to me back in the mid 60s (when I actually started playing the drum kit) was by my teacher Morris Goldenberg - who recommended George Lawrence's "Stick Control." Then Billy Cobham himself recommended the same manual to me when I met him in NYC (1971). That was an "eye opener" for me, and for anyone witnessing Billy Cobham play live! I was astounded, to say the least!

Yet to the point, it was then when the Light Came On in my mind. I began to seriously embrace the fluid motion when "hand to hand" attitude is executed. And eventually, it didn't matter what genre of music was to be performed - although we all have our preferences about musical styles. That's an individual's prerogative, and I respect that. For me, I like Rock as much as I do Blues. I love ballads as much as I do fusion. I guess I'm just "mixed up" that way and eclectic! I figure I'm sane with the embracing!

Fundamentally however, I'm a right handed drummer. The challenge for me is to adapt the fluid sticking with "hand to hand" to any rythmic patter withing a song to be performed. The same applies to my feet when mixing up the "notes" with appropriate accents (usually given by either horns or vocals - and most certainly where the drummer finds himself within the musical phrase toward the "one!"). It's like when people speak with each other in a conversation: just listen to who's speaking to you and understand the context (genre): that's difficult to do at times because some anticipate too quickly what you are saying before it's understood. The same with music - think in terms of the musical sentence without fear of being cut off in mid sentence...

That's my attitude and hopefully one of many signatures among so many JAZZTASTIC musicians, artists and people in this World. You've ALL contributed to my life and I thank you - especially to Billy Cobham for his unique musical ear to the technicalities while bringing out distinct punctuations toward the period (punctuating The ONE in a musical phrase, sentence, paragraph and Piece!).

George Lawrence's "Stick Control

I have had that book for years and I still need to get into it more.

Well, you all know my story.
I have talked you all dead
into the ground on it.

The present tense has me
playing traditional, left-hand
on the high-hat and ride
cymbal on the left and right
hand on the ride cymbal to
the right.

That is right. I ride trad, on
my left side.



Regards,

Being a newb, Pete, I don't know your story. Is there a thread about your experience with this?

Here I am in a situation where I'm playing open handed,
While still leading with the right hand (I'm Left handed).

I just began playing this way on a single BD kit earlier this
year, while I've been playing this way with a double BD kit
for many years now.

With me, I just turned the drums around rather than myself.
Hi-hat on the right, hh pedal still on the left via an 8 ft. cable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViYwSSnwZD8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Z1zpJx4Bw

I need to spring for 1 of those remote hihats and put it right in front of the snare like bill bruford. that makes a hella lotta sense to me. It takes away the problem of right side/left side placement. split the difference, more options. For the hi hat heavy kind of calypso-ish drumming i do plus you could hang toms right over top of it and have them go around both sides too. plus have a ride on either side. although i might bash my knuckles at first for a while.

I got a pearl remote h-h some months back for placement to my right (ride side). The action of the unit is great and what a difference it makes to have hats on the ride side.

Hey Kenny, the Klezmonauts. Pretty cool stuff. Do you do any odd time with that music? As soon as the opening notes began I automatically assumed I'd be hearing 5,7,9 whatever. Was interesting to hear middle eastern stuff in 4. Sounds like music you must have fun playing.

Everybody is right!!!!!!!!! I really don't care how you do but just use those sticks to make some music!
sonically speaking HAPPY 2012!

Boomer

Personally, I see no "problem" with left side/right side
placement.

There is no wrong way as long as it works for you
SENSIBLY!

I personally like the idea of developing the ability
to play cross stick or open handed, fills left to right
or vise-versa. Also, I like the idea of perioically
changing my setup configuration. This works on the
same principal as muscle shock when you're working
out and you do an execise that's out of your normal
routine to shock and stimulate the muscle to further
growth and development.

When I switch my setups around it takes me out of automatic
pilot mode and shocks my brain into making me REALLY THINK
about how I have to apply myself to say what it is I want to say.

In turn and over time, I have no choice but to become a more
effective contributor from multiple angles.

the dilemma i see is reaching across the snare to play the hi hat dbl handed. rather than having a hi hat on each side having it in front gives access to both hands equally. For alot of stuff i play 2 hands on the hi hat becoming like a shekere keeping time. I just see it as simplifying and opening up possibilities. Well if i ever get 1 i'll report on it.

Asaph, klezmer is pretty much in straight time but we do have 1 original in 7/4
We just got an amazing reed player and it's really opened us up!
I play the odd metered dances with a balkan group kef .

Though the possibities aren't what I'd consider endless, I believe
there are more than a few options. You'll never know until you
try. I encourage all those who are serious about playing/ improving
to take time to invest in your craft. Time, work and money, it takes all
three. approach it with the best that you have to offer. I spend a lot
of money on my equipment. It may not be the best, but it's the best
that I can afford.

For me the problem with 'left hand lead' has always been playing the ghost notes on the snare. My right hand is just not as sensitive as my left although my right hand is faster. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to 'get it', but I never really could make it work.

The master at work-
http://www.youtube.be/watch?v=KUNtaGMZyM0

Time and practice, rare. The true ambidextrous That I know to this day is Simon Phillips.

I've seen him switch leads in the middle of a tune without losing a single ghost note.

Rare,

When you work it, do it
really, really lightly. Try
this. Lose yourself in the
music. Your hands will
find their way, perhaps.

Regards,

Thanks for the advice. I've spent many, many hours working on it but the truth is I still feel just a little bit more comfortable playing 'the old way'.

Well, it's not something I'd take on at this point in my playing.
So I just basically figured out another way to play open handed.

Stay where you are.... Nothing wrong with it!