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Hey, Pete... What are......

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1 Hey, Pete... What are...... on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:24 pm

your current thoughts on the Trick pedal as compared to the
Boa. I'm speaking more in terms of action, feel etc. than I am
the bells and whistles though I'd like some comparison feedback
on those also.

As you know, My opinion of the Boa is the highest among kick pedals.
I've also tried out the Trick many years ago but never really got the
chance to run it through it's paces. So, what's the 411 according to
Papa P. Question Exclamation

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2 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:13 am

Having tried them both now I can add my two cents. One is totally precise, almost static on nature. The other totally alive. They are both easy to adjust, though I believe the Trick is more precise to adjust by design, both smooth, quick action, but the diving board has a lot more "living" action to it than Trick's compression spring, to my foot. I see the Trick as great for blast beat playing. Cranking out fast notes at constant rates. The BOA has a lot ore heart to its action. They sure do not feel the same. Changing beaters made some differences. I also believe the Big Foot probably has a better, more floating feel to it. I have the regular model, but owing to my observations thus far longboards are the way to go.

The Trick is made better, I believe. I was surprised to see my second BOA come with a beater that had a shorter pad surrounding the core which completely ruined the effect. I had to sand down the plastic core a 1/16" to match them up. Considering the cost, and the machines cranking out parts, sending that beater out with that pedal is unacceptable to me. No real assembly product control. Other than that (and the cracking footboard issue, sloppy bearings) I believe the BOA is a better feeling device, but that it totally personal. My second BOA does not have the noise issues. I know you mentioned you did not have any noise problems with yours.

It seems strange DW cannot modify the BOA to meet more critical demands of product control and mechanics, but, the economy is tough right now. Not a lot of money for R&D and manufacturing new ideas.

I hope I didn't intrude into your thread here.

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3 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:46 pm

Thanks, Asaph,

You didn't intrude, though I'm having a bit of trouble
trying to decipher the meaning behind some of your
terms: "alive", "living". Not quite getting those.

I'm having NO issues with my Boa. It blows away
anything I've ever used and I have some really
nice pedals, like the Axis long board and the Iron
Cobra. I'm a heel up player so long boards are of
no consequence to me... But I am happy to have
a set as I believe the hinge system is a better one
mechanically speaking. No hinges to worry about
at all with the Boa.

I'm sorry about all of your problems with the Boa.
I was really reluctant to purchase one even though
Pete was giving it a really good review in his writings
on it. But the fact that it was under the Pacific name
raised a red flag with me. I tried one at a music store
in San Francisco and was floored by it's smooth, totally
silent, precise action and feel... I had to have it. That
was about a year and a half ago and I've been using it
liberally and I have no complaints.

They are EXTREMELY hard to get hold of now since being
out of production. I'm really glad I made the investment.
I guess I got my set from the good batch. Very Happy

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4 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:31 pm

Yeah, it's difficult to put mechanical actions in to human terms.

The fluid action of the BOA is "alive" to me in way that corresponds to brain/foot/play action. The Trick is so precise it almost feels sterile by comparison. It's some kind of lack of being able to play note emphasis with it. It's like every stroke comes out the same velocity. Interestingly enough, Mike Van Dyk noticed the same thing, although the BOA felt kind of run away for him. Kind of a mind of its own. But that is why I said alive. It does seem to alive compared to the mechanism of the Trick. The Trick does seem more solid. It's like a fully trained horse versus a new colt. The BOA just wants to run and play and have fun. The trained horse Trick knows how to get the job done.

I still like the Nucleus3 better than any of them, but like I said on the other thread, the BOA comes in a close second, even though the feel is different. It's a lot of fun to play. I was actually disappointed in that aspect of the Trick, or lack thereof. I could do the strokes, but it just isn't fun to play.

Interesting, as well, when Mike watched me play the same pattern on each pedal he could actually hear how the pattern sounded better on the Nucleus than all the others. Each note was there, but the rhythmic sequence was cleaner on the Nucleus. He was surprised to hear it. The BOA came in an aural second. He could just hear it.

He kept messing around with the Pearl DD, like he wanted it to do more than it could, given all the hype. He couldn't understand all the hype. Ditto. He really liked the Tama Speed Cobra, and whether or not you play heel/ toe really isn't the finest aspect of a long board in my observations. I just believe the long board changes the leverage of a pedal's action in a very positive way. Just makes it even easier to play. Can't wait till Mike gets a long board going on the Nucleus.

Yeah, I'm glad I got the two BOAs, all things considered. There have been days when I've sat at that pedal board and can't do a thing on any of the pedals. Just weird bio-physical stuff going on, I guess. Some days the BOA felt a tad better than the Nucleus. Next day, the Nucleus pulled ahead. For the most part it has stayed ahead and will remain my 1st pedal of choice.

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5 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:07 pm

Well, I don't know about the other two pedals
but I know that the Boa has SO many adjustment
options to choose from to DRASTICALLY change the
action and feel of the pedal. I know that I had to sit
down with this unit in hand and do the trial and error
deal as far as getting it adjusted... It scared me at
first because out of the box, The feel really sucked
eggs! But after working with it for about 30 minutes
or so, it was RET-TA-GO!

As to the long board, many players like them for the
heel/toe rocking motion advantage to play very fast
with one pedal. I don't do that so it's of no concern to
me. Again, I do agree that on a long board, the hinge
system is a more effective and stable one.

I don't get the "run away" feeling with the Boa as you discribed.
On the contrary, it offers me a control factor, precisely and dynamically
that I've never had before in any other pedal I've used. Whatever I
ask of it, it will do.

As a matter of fact, I know that I haven't even come close to
reaching this pedal's potential as I'M the one that's lacking and
need to raise my skill level. If I can command more, it'll give me
more....

I do hope to have the opportunity to one day work with the Trick.

You know, maybe you can record some samples and post them here. Exclamation

Here is an excellent tutorial on the Boa and it's adjustments by inventor
Bob Gatzen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qots2N8F0sE

The Boa should be back on the market by mid year.

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6 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:43 pm

I must choose the Trick pedal.



I have worked with both pedals
and I mean every which way to
Sunday. The crucial elements
are there in both but the Trick
is the more dependable pedal.

I use twins and I have to always
keep checking my Boa's. They
are constantly needing attention.
When you look at my old pics
of the pedal, the cams are set
up in a radical way that, with
the foot-board pushed away
from the rim, allows for that
wonderful snap-back.

The Trick allows the same thing
but much more simply and you
can see my dials in the photos
of that thread.

http://bcwtj.forumotion.com/t3-the-trick-pro-1-bigfoot-longboard?highlight=trick

I am not going to bring up the
foot-boards because I have
exhausted that.

The Trick has everything, does
everything and solid and stays
that way. I wish the Boa could
just just hold onto its settings.
They just can't, for me. Once,
I set up the Tricks right, they
stay right and the compression
is so comfortable for me.

Fantastic designs. It's in the
materials, I think and there,
Trick has everyone, I feel. The
team, there, is innovating and
always looking to improve.
Mike is fantastic. I should tell
you about the tour he gave me
of the shop, here.

The new HH's look absolutely
earth-shaking. Cable-players
are going to flock and I can
see Pearl and the rest looking
to duplicate the design but I
know the patent-lawyer and
that is not going to happen,
at least, here, in the US. Ask
Pearl about that.

Very Happy pirat

Of course, there is no doubt
that Trick is SO high-end. It
is a boutique shop, clearly. I
mean I think I am the only
one actually thinking about
buying a titanium kit. The kits
are VERY expensive.

I will be going back, again,
for another visit because I
hear that the twin attach-
ment rod has been modified
again and that the left feels
more like the right more than
ever before.

There is one more thing that
I have to say about playing Tricks:

The disk/circular tension-ing
dial allows me to make ad-
justments WHILE I am
playing!! THAT kills for me.

So, there it is. Trick is the #1.



A general note: I have concluded
that players do not exhaust the
different set-ups these pedals
allow. When I set them up for
someone else, they can't believe
the action. They just do not look
at the whole spectrum. I find most
setting them up like a typical pedal
and you are just putting rags on
a princess if you do that.

Again, look at the settings on the
cams in my pics and you will see
where things get radical. Both
of these designs deserve time.
When you find it, you will jump!

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
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7 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:50 pm

Thanks, Papa P.

I've known for a long time that the Trick
was your baby. I doubted you on the
Boa and that was a mistake. I won't make
that mistake again. I really do want to get
my hands on a Trick. I don't know if you
remeber, but I was the one that told you
about it and you went and got yourself one
and was able to put it through it's paces.
The little I tried of it, I thought it was a mean
piece.

I remeber at the time, one of the issues
with it was that locking wheel adjustment on
the pedals connecting rod. It wouldn't keep
hold and would slip but I assume that problem
has been eliminated. Another thing that worried
me even though the feel was fantastic was the
compression action of the spring. I was concerned
that it might lose it's spring back effect over time.
But apparently that didn't happen.

The last part of your post is SO true, Pete. You have
sit down with these units and work with them. When
I first dialed in the Boa, I had it set for double pedal
use. Later I decided to use it on my double bass kit
and had to totally reset the slave pedal action to for
single use. On the Axis, I had to spend some time with
it. With my other standard pedals, for me it was simply
a matter of adjusting the beater hight, and arc, adjusting
the spring tension and clamp em on and play... Not with
these babies.

Like with Asaph, I can't understand or don't know why
you're having these issues with the Boa. I use mine
regularly... I'm gigging all the time, putting it on, taking
it off, taking it loose for storage purposes and the thing
is rock of Gibralter solid every time. I don't know how
hard you play but maybe these synthetic, less forgiving
surfaces you play on adds extra stress to the pedal's
working parts.... Who knows?

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8 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:15 pm

Whatever the reason is, Don, the Tricks
are on the kit most of the time, unless I
am testing something.

Incidentally, Mike (Drumnetics) is very
excited about some things that he has
done to his design and I can't wait to
try it and see.

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
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9 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:41 am

Yeah, well I'm assuming that the Trick
is built to a degree that it's better suited
for what you're playing on. But that has
no bearing on your problems with the Boa.

Again, it's a bummer that you and Asaph are
having these issues.... Me, I'm good to go
and a happy camper! Wink

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10 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:14 am

It happens when I am really running
quick on them. I think the world of
the basic design. It is the materials.
It also hurts my arthritic wrists to
make the adjustments.

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com

11 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:32 am

And I still, very much, like to
play the Boa Single-Pedal.
Less to worry about.

I play the board very loose,
with the cam way-reverse,
the link-receiver pushed
all the way forward and
dropped down to its long-
est possible setting.

The base-plate is also
pushed away as far as
it can go from the hoop.

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
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12 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:40 am

Pete, what is that you're holding in your hand in that picture?

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13 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:04 am

It is a Trick Drum Key
with my name lasered
on one side and my
initials on the other.

cheers


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com

14 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:21 am

I forgot to mention two things about the BOA. One, I really dislike the fact that when you adjust the upper link the beater angle comes loose. You have to constantly address that while adjusting things. Two, BOTH of my beaters are crooked. The holes in the beater wheel are not correct. It is pretty ridiculous to sit back and look at these pedals, all the work and design that went into them, and see two beater shafts tilting right. At first I thought I had the beater wheels tightened incorrectly (as mentioned in the BOA thread about this aspect I found the teeth are very small and the fit is not terribly precise). It's not improper tightening though. The holes are drilled wrong.

It's one of the reasons I call this pedal a wild colt. It cannot come close to being compared with the Trick or Nucleus, or any other pedal I have owned for that matter, as far as design mechanisms and manufacturing. But the thing will run like the wind when you play it. Of course, I have no experience with the double versions of any of these units.

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15 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:32 am

Now, THAT, I have NEVER heard
before, Asaph.

If you like, I would be glad to look
at the pedal for you.

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com

16 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:58 pm

If these are American made it's a sad thing. If they are foreign made, it is not surprising to me.

Thanks for the offer to look at them. Not really anything can be done but get new beater rotors, correctly bored.

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17 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:21 pm

Can you post pictures of the pedal
for me, here, so I can see what it
is exactly that you are seeing?

Regards,


_________________
Pete

To the father of us, all - Billy Cobham!
View user profile http://bcwtj.forumotion.com

18 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:40 pm

Sure. I was going to post a picture of my pedal test on the other thread. I guess I need to look for the instructions on how to post pics on the forum.

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19 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:43 pm

Oh, nice. It's right on the message box, no fancy instructions. Decent!

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20 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:43 pm

Wow! Major issues between the two of you with this unit.
Of which not a ONE that I have experienced to date...

I'm so thankful for that.

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21 Re: Hey, Pete... What are...... on Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:31 am

So as not to hijack this thread I placed the pic on the BOA thread.

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