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Playing behind the beat.

+3
rarebit
D. Slam
Woody
7 posters

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1Playing behind the beat. Empty Playing behind the beat. Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:10 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

In reference to the thread I wrote to Pete, and Kenny's and rarebit's comments on "playing behind the beat", here is an example of this technique. This is an artist that goes by the name of "Daniel" ( I love his work, BTW) The tune is called "Don't label me". I only posted a small piece of it so as to get directly to the point. At 00:12 into the example is where this technique begins accompanied by a tempo change The delay according to my ear sounds to be a 32nd note behind the meter. In actuality, It's playing the beat behind the tempo.

Whatever you call it, this I think is a perfect example of what everyone refers to as: "playing behind the beat". If anyone has an example of playing "ahead" of the beat, I'd love to hear it.

http://files.filefront.com/Dont+label+memp3/;13427379;/fileinfo.html

D.



Last edited by D. Slam on Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

2Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:13 pm

Woody

Woody

I wonder why anyone would want to play like that???
It all seems "out of synch", to me.
Almost like a mistake.

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3Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:59 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

That's the whole idea, Woody... A bit out of sync.... "Almost like a mistake". But when listening to it, you know that it isn't. This is the real meaning of laying back the groove as it's known. It gives the tune a certain sense of attitude, a confident kind of strut, really.

As much as I hate to say it, it's basically if not completely a black thang. It's the kinda groove that makes the sistahs close their eyes, put their hands in the aeah, pop their fingers and say haaaaaayyyyyyyy!!!

Those who are not from there, I don't expect them to understand. All I can say is it's a groove and feeling that goes beyond what's "technically" correct. I can't explain it beyond that.

You had to have been there I guess. Neutral

4Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 pm

rarebit



Damn, that's TOO far behind the beat...but then again I'm just a white guy and that stuff freaks us out albino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3c80crYdIU affraid


How about this one from D'Angelo? The bass drum sounds a touch 'behind the beat' to me-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvBsurkkfQM

(And it's got a hot chick to match)

Or this one from Jill Scott. I think it's Questlove on drums. The organ and the bass drum both behind the beat. Rimshot right in the middle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSYMKUtNuw8

Or pretty much anything from Basie where the whole band is behind the beat. Which leads me to- How does an arranger write that stuff down? Is it something that's just agreed upon?

5Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:52 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Damn, that's TOO far behind the beat...but then again I'm just a white guy and that stuff freaks us out.

lol! lol! lol!

Or pretty much anything from Basie where the whole band is behind the beat.

Hey rare, how does that work? I figure somebody's gotta be ahead for somebody to be behind..... Yes, no? scratch

6Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:26 am

Daveonskins

Daveonskins

Hey Don,
Yeah that's cool stuff-
Definitely more of a beat displacement going on there. (surely for effect). But I like the fact that it is so pronounced in it's time.
It's refreshing to hear actually, and somewhat innovative in it's approach from a Hip Hop, R+B vibe.

7Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:47 pm

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear

D, my take on that tune is this - it's a drum machine so nobody is actually playing anything . If anything, the guy just doesn't know how to play in time, or he just liked the way that "beat" came out and went with it. I don't give him credit for consciously playing that way. And I didn't like the tune either. Sorry.

I guess I would prefer to hear a human example . Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

8Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:10 pm

Woody

Woody

You might be right, Ted.
I can't really imagine anyone aspiring to play that way.
It doesn't do anything for me, either. Rolling Eyes

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/robertwoodbury

9Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:24 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Ted E. Bear wrote:D, my take on that tune is this - it's a drum machine so nobody is actually playing anything . If anything, the guy just doesn't know how to play in time, or he just liked the way that "beat" came out and went with it. I don't give him credit for consciously playing that way. And I didn't like the tune either. Sorry.

I guess I would prefer to hear a human example . Peace, TED

Hey, Ted,

The point was simply to demonstrate the technique of playing or having the beat, behind the tempo be it a drum machine or whatever the case may be. Liking or disliking the tune or what was done is a whole different matter that's really of no consequence to me. We like what we like, there's no need to apologize for that. I was only responding to the comments that were written in the thread I wrote to Pete.... As I said before, It's not something I expect you to understand.

At the very least I think a few people learned something they thought they already knew but didn't, and that's always a good thing.

And btw, it was no accident or mistake. It was purposefully done which is why I played the segment before the lazy part which was right on the beat. Assuming someone physically played this then he or she was consistent throughout. And if it was a drum machine which I tend to believe it was, then with the quantizing ability to get it right on the meter, I am totally confident that the technique and feel was intended just the way it happened.

Thanks for your input.

D.

10Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:59 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Hey Don,
Yeah that's cool stuff-
Definitely more of a beat displacement going on there. (surely for effect). But I like the fact that it is so pronounced in it's time.
It's refreshing to hear actually, and somewhat innovative in it's approach from a Hip Hop, R+B vibe.

Absolutely, that's also the way I see it, D.L. Just another way of expressing one's musical self and Ideas...... Or not. Idea

11Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:09 pm

rarebit



D. Slam wrote:
Damn, that's TOO far behind the beat...but then again I'm just a white guy and that stuff freaks us out.

lol! lol! lol!

Or pretty much anything from Basie where the whole band is behind the beat.

Hey rare, how does that work? I figure somebody's gotta be ahead for somebody to be behind..... Yes, no? scratch

I see your point. I suppose it's the feel. So relaxed and swinging.

12Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:57 pm

kenny

kenny

D. Slam wrote:In reference to the thread I wrote to Pete, and Kenny's and rarebit's comments on "playing behind the beat", here is an example of this technique. This is an artist that goes by the name of "Daniel" ( I love his work, BTW) The tune is called "Don't label me". I only posted a small piece of it so as to get directly to the point. At 00:12 into the example is where this technique begins accompanied by a tempo change The delay according to my ear sounds to be a 32nd note behind the meter. In actuality, It's playing the beat behind the tempo.

Whatever you call it, this I think is a perfect example of what everyone refers to as: "playing behind the beat". If anyone has an example of playing "ahead" of the beat, I'd love to hear it.

http://files.filefront.com/Dont+label+memp3/;13427379;/fileinfo.html

D.

Hi don, Thanks for putting this up. I am just getting to listen to it. I like it, it's definitely out there. It's funky to me. Just something different to throw a curveball. i find it interesting to listen to. I'm glad I knew beforehand what i was getting into. I find it kind of related to an african musical concept of trying every weird offbeat possible to throw the listener's mind into confusion. One person describes it as from the distance it sounds like someone is crushing a wicker basket then when you listen closer you realize there are all kinds of strangely timed things going on that seem foreign to the ear. i hear the placement as weird and funky out of time around the beat. Like not just behind but all around, kind of decorating the beat without actually playing it. behind is a great way to describe it. It's avant-garde off the beaten track out of the wagon ruts. like freejazz for funksters. I would describe it as "outside"of the normal realm of the beat. cool
thanks again cyclops

http://www.balkanmusic.org

13Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:10 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Yeah, Kenny,

I really like the stuff Daniel does.... Here is a soulful, funky tune called "You can't stop me" that has some interesting African rhythm application that hit strongly around 2:50...

This is just a local artist out of L.A.

There are some dangerously talented unknowns out there!


http://files.filefront.com/05+You+cant+stop+mewma/;13545124;/fileinfo.html

14Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:32 pm

kenny

kenny

Right around 2:20 it feels like the whole thing is slowed down a notch.
There is this whole genre of music that is called downtempo. maybe this is what they mean by down tempo rather than speeding up it gets more relaxed.
Nice stuff i am not up on the latest r&B and it's good to hear what's goin on.

http://www.balkanmusic.org

15Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:43 am

D. Slam

D. Slam

That cd is about 7 years old, Kenny.

16Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:18 am

kenny

kenny

see what i mean?

http://www.balkanmusic.org

17Playing behind the beat. Empty Re: Playing behind the beat. Sun May 10, 2009 8:12 pm

Suss

Suss

With reference to "playing behind the beat," it is a technique within the quiver one draws an arrow. For me since the early 70s, playing behind the beat meant listening to everyone, rather than being a metronome. Music flows with the dynamics inherent to the artform. Yet time is constant. So the demand upon the musician is to "vibe" with everyone on stage without dropping a beat, or leaving anyone behind.

This is a learned skill, and not a gift or talent. This skill is honed over experience of actually "playing" and being "challenged" by opportunity, without taking anything for granted.

Preparation is essential with these dynamics, simply because you'll never know who'll you meet along the way.

I've met great people here in their own right.

I hope our gaps are bridged by sincerity and not futility.

So playing behind the beat means not losing "the beat/meter," but staying withing the flow of the music/genre/idiom and groove.

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