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T.W and Black Dots

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D. Slam
Colin
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1T.W and Black Dots Empty T.W and Black Dots Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Racman

Racman

Of course in reference to the late great T. Williams playing Remo's classic Black Dot heads. It almost inspires me once again to play using these heads

Just a quiet bit of a Sunday morning view on YouTube.
Glenn




https://youtu.be/OPu6oJz88kw Smile

http://www.glennracoma.com

2T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:14 pm

Colin

Colin

Great Solo


I miss Tony.


______________________

Outtasight
Colin

3T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:12 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Yes, I have this DVD... Tony Williams Live in New York... Great stuff!

4T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:10 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

A great time for him.

Regards,

https://bcwtj.forumotion.com

5T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:26 pm

Racman

Racman

Another one:

The great Tony and raw physics.
Lugano, Switzerland

https://youtu.be/I1H7CTsMV7w

Rac

http://www.glennracoma.com

6T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Woody

Woody

You can really here Alan Dawsons influence in Tonys playing.

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/robertwoodbury

7T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:21 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

What I did NOT like about them
was that they made the head
not smooth. No brushes etc.

Of course, I used them for a
long, long time before Evans.

Regards,

https://bcwtj.forumotion.com

8T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:09 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

I hated the black dots... I could never get used to the feel of them...
Or the sound for that matter.

9T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:31 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Tony used them (the dot)
for target-practice, too.

Regards,

https://bcwtj.forumotion.com

10T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:29 pm

Woody

Woody

I used them on marching snare drums and thought that they held up well in that regards.
After a while the black dot will come off with enough beating, though.
I never really considered them for the kit.

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/robertwoodbury

11T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:16 am

Suss

Suss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPu6oJz88kw&feature=youtu.be

Tony Williams IS a genius. He expressed his musicality that only a few could understand. The man is asleep and in no way should be compared to Buddy Rich. They both had their gifts in a period of time when racism excluded too many people. Such is neither BR's fault nor TW's fault. It's the fault of those who think they are better than the ones already BETTA!

By the way, for those who don't know... my pseudonym is SussQuatch. Cool

As to the equipment, gadgets and gear (?), one must know how to navigate them all without a compass or a hearing aid.

/// oh, I'm breaking up; the connection is lost; sorry. Talk to you later.

Isn't that a crock!

http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

12T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:49 pm

Racman

Racman

It's about Movements not hot shots


A bit blurry but here's another one of the same piece (first link) but shows TW's classic fluid work over the toms which brought identity to Mr. Williams' mark as a genius craftsman of his instrument. Incredible precision, power, and dynamics ever utilized by any drummer I've heard. Tony was about pushing concept uniquely applied to the kit.

To play dotted heads, in my experience with it, there is fair amount of physical effort to pull the sound out of these heads. Although you can play low but better sounding if the snare was off, maintaining a tom sound on the snare as you will note in the video. But in most instances they were meant to be played hard if you was to produce anything reasonable projecting out of it. Or I could put this way; to play dots successfully you would have to be well developed in skill and physically able to apply technique without shying away. Dots did not have the rebound we have now with recent developments on head construction. As far as durability factor?..they were difficult to break and to break one was a gesture that you may have been pissed off and had a bad day Wink

Question pose; If dotted heads are so out of range with good sounding heads why then did it sound so good when hearing Tony play them? I think the obvious is Tony himself. And the other part is that it had to do with a quality of sound produced that was outside of the norm of what a drum was expected to sound like in a traditional jazz environment. Again, we need to recall that Tony was about deviating from the common mold to pioneer into experimenting new ways of expressing himself intentional with the motive of being respectful to his traditional ties. His credibility as an accomplished musician was that he could do this without any hesitations or concerns of what anybody thought or disliked. His well-earned leadership granted him to dictate how a kit would (will) sound in any traditional jazz situation he encountered. Mr. Williams was not merely known as pinnacle superior musicianship here, but a moulder to the direction of where jazz drumming was to journey if one so dared to go that trail. In the youth and genius of Tony, jazz was about to aggravate the familiar as it rocks the shackles of paradigm for change. But this was jazz. Tony was simply "redefining" it's identity of being a revolutionary movement of it's time and culture which aligns itself to being it's core statement that we are indeed...truly profoundly free.

Closing;
But anyway, please do take note of Tony's work on the toms - and you get to hear the totality of the musical piece in all of it's compositional glory. And please, let's remind ourselves that I'm not talking about a drum contest consisting of cocky twerps promoting cutting-edge developments in drum heads here, but rather highly respected and well earned movements of creative ingenuity that could be timeless lessons for today...if only it was hearkened.

Out,
Rac

https://youtu.be/fTUBecbl7Gs

http://www.glennracoma.com

13T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:15 pm

Suss

Suss

Racman wrote:It's about Movements not hot shots

Question pose; If dotted heads are so out of range with good sounding heads, why then did it sound so good when hearing Tony play them? I think the obvious is Tony himself.
Out,
Rac
https://youtu.be/fTUBecbl7Gs

You answered your own Question Rac and arrived at the proper solution! Ya gotta hit those bad boys!

I stopped playing Remo black dots in the early 80s. The reason why is that by then I didn't have to project as much sound as what was already in my hands. Those reinforced heads simply (to me) didn't allow the sensitivity certain music must have... whereas on the other hand if the drummer only wants to get that tactile feedback, then it's up to proper tuning and the audio engineer to tweek the PA for audience appreciation. I've preferred to make the instrument reflect what I put into it, and not depend on another person/crew to make it sound the way it ought to.

Case in point - while seeming on another note. When I showed up at Sigma Sound in NYC to record Ashford & Simpson, I was met with Remo's Roto Toms. That was the entire kit, except for the kick drum and snare. I had to tune those suckers (toms) just to get back what I knew I wanted to hear.

Once done, it was just a matter of BEING the instrument instead of playing it. "Bourgie Bourgie" is perhaps the best example I can offer here, along with "Send It."

http://www.johnsussewell.com/BourgieBourgie_Ashford&Simpson&Suss-1977.mp3

http://www.johnsussewell.com/SendIt-AshfordSimpsonWithSuss1977.mp3

These days, I wouldn't even think about playing roto toms or black dots. But that's me - they sound dull when compared to such heads on drums with proper shells and tuning. God willing, it just might happen that roto toms might come into the picture again - but I suspect that tympanies would be more appropriate. As for black dots - I doubt it, while I still have a few. bounce Basketball

http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

14T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:07 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

The older I get, the more and
more that I hate comparisons.

Apples, oranges or melons?

I like fruit!

cheers

https://bcwtj.forumotion.com

15T.W and Black Dots Empty Re: T.W and Black Dots Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:23 am

Suss

Suss

Admin (Pete) wrote:The older I get, the more and
more that I hate comparisons.

Apples, oranges or melons?

I like fruit!

cheers

Unlike offering opinions on a particular theme (thread) in a public forum, the outcome of ideas and execution is the fruit!

Agreed!

http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsussewell  http://www.facebook.co

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