Wonderful Drum Solo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4n6CZYoDS0&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Perhaps he is well known, I don't know, but this seems one of the 'unknowns' who have taken the artistry to levels of very *well-knowns.*

Some of the people are a distraction, but the musicality of the solo is something I could listen to all day long. And the small drums sound totally cool.

Yeah I have watched him before, he has about 10 videos Dylan is a great drummer

Very cool! If you're gonna incorporate
twirls and stick tricks, that's the way to do it!

No, I did NOT like the tin can drum sound but I'm
sure they were convenient given the circumstance.
but what he did in this video really inspired me!

With the physical difficulty he incorporated, he still
remained very musical. Did you see the audience
out there bobbing and dancing?! THAT'S what it's
all about!!!!

Here is one more

Okay, again...... Another exhibition video!
How does he work with other players?
And how do other players work with him?

Are there any clips of him playing in a
group setting. The neat slick tricks/beats
and making music in a colaborative setting
are two totally different animals.

The slick tricks does not a great drummer make.

But check him out here at age 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0BacX1Sfg&feature=related

Dude can't afford a shirt. Which solo did B.C. do this bass drum pattern on? Funky Thide of Sings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4n6CZYoDS0&feature=player_detailpage#t=339s

You know what I'm talking about. BTW, this is a jam-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQAv0VCVoc

And here's another one-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzQNprwwUI&feature=fvwrel

D. Slam wrote:Okay, again...... Another exhibition video!
How does he work with other players?
And how do other players work with him?

Are there any clips of him playing in a
group setting. The neat slick tricks/beats
and making music in a colaborative setting
are two totally different animals.

The slick tricks does not a great drummer make.

But check him out here at age 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0BacX1Sfg&feature=related

I saw one of him playing with a band a couple of years ago, but they must have taken it off of youtube

Well, Spanky, it seems pretty apparent to me
That this kind of setting is his main forte...

I looked for some clips of him playing with a band
also and like you, I couldn't find anything. He does
some cool stuff. But then there's the meat and
potatos, the substance. And really, that's the mark
and standard by which a great player will always
be judged.

I remember seeing Ricky Lawson with the Yellow Jackets
and they gave him a drum solo... Among the worst drum
solos I had ever heard. But look at his credentials:
Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Steely Dan.... And the
list goes on and on. He's among the top groove drummers
in all the world and he is in demand by the who's who of
notables.

All the slick rick stuff is fun for a little while. And then it quickly
vanishes like vapor.

It appears these vids are in relation to some kind of big day in New Zealand. I see people putting money into something in front of the drums. Maybe this guy is down on his luck and makes his living, such as it is, doing this, and as such it is as viable as anything any drummer does in any group on earth. Just an observation.

Even Bozzio. While it may be his big opening was with Zappa, and then Missing Persons, he has carved out a career on solo drums for the most part.

Yeah, but the difference is, we know that Bozzio can make music.
My point is you can have all these skills to do this sort of thing and
still not be able to "seat" properly in a colaborative musical effort.

So it's not "Viable" in every sense because it's not something that
sticks. It's cool for a minute and then folks will always want to return
home. It's like Muhammed Ali doing all the talk about Islam culture and
the "honorable Elija Muhammad". He's visited the country and nation,
did the Mecca deal and all that. But you see he brought his ass right
back here to the good ol' US of A, him and the honorable Elija both.

Likewise, people will always return to music.. Genuine, real, good
ol' fashion, no nonsense, MUSIC!

And THAT'S what's viable.

I hear ya.

On the other hand, here in the USA, whatever someone/people are willing to pay for or give their time to is viable.

I don't know what the music scene is like in NZ. I'd be hard pressed to believe someone with his rhythmic skills could not back a band. But if he could make a living doing what he does on the street or a concert hall all by himself, it's viable to me whether he could back a band or not.

Heck, Akira Jimbo is his own one man band. Give this guy some toys like Jimbo what could he do?

This does bring up a great topic though. Is a great drummer great because of his skills on the drum set or because he can drive or back a band/another artist well?

Some say just because you have great skills at a drum set doesn't mean you can back a band. Others say just because you can back a band doesn't mean you have great drum set skills.

The vast majority a drummers on the planet cannot do what this guy does with a pair of drum sticks and a drum set.

I am reminded of the video showing the auditions for Dream Theater. Here are drummers with world class skills. Only one was seen as the right fit. Are those who lost not great drummers in their own right? They are. But they could not back Dream Theater to their satisfaction. So ... I see "greatness" more as what the person does with the drums, not what he can do with any given group of musicians. And I don't like Dream Theater's music, nor am I drawn to the particular skills of some of the drummers who auditioned, nor, especially, some of the music those drummers are involved in, but they certainly have their followings and stand among those drummers on the planet with exceptional skills behind the set.

Of course, Buddy said Mel Lewis was great because Mel had a style, a sound that was recognizable. I would not say Mel Lewis was great because of his technique. He certainly could back a band, though.

Just because I can drive my passenger car
doesn't mean I can drive a race car. likewise,
one who may be a great exhibitionist isn't
automatically translated into a "great drummer"
because of that. Never, ever was the greatness
of any player earned by these standards. It
has ALWAYS been based on the music they've
contributed to and what they've done with it.

Can this kid deliver on this premise? I don't know,
I still haven't found any clips to support that. If you
do, please post them here.

Here is some good information on Dylan, and him at the Jazz festival in that second video. That second video lets me know just how good he is, and he is good that solo is amazing. I still can't find the video of him playing with a band, that I saw a couple of years ago. He also tells you on one of those links that he's played with a lot of bands.

http://guy.com/2011/03/10/the-most-insane-drummer-ever/

His page
http://www.bebo.com/c/profile?TUUID=6c2a30a2-5fd5-48ec-90c7-9863b2a04a0d&MemberId=7296530578

I'm not sure I follow your analogy. Seems to me the guy is driving the race car as far as technique. I know what you mean though.

I have to say, what standard that we have known, in any area of life, remains the same as it was when we were young? None that I know of. None. Standards bare different now, for many people. 300 bpm with your feet is considered "great" by multitudes of drummers now. It's certainly athletic. It certainly shows practice time, and it also shows certain techniques are being employed to pull it off. I wouldn't call it musical. Mechanical, maybe, but not musical. But that is my standard. It isn't the current standard of the day for most young players. Even if guys who can do that in the context of "music" of this day, it doesn't make it great to me. But it certainly is to others.

Dylan plays music on his drums. Whether he can play with other musicians, which I'm sure someone with that degree of timing and talent can, is rather moot, to me.

They call Tony Royster Jr. a great drummer. They called him that when he was a kid on that Modern Drummer video. Is he any more great because he now plays in bands? How? How is greatness measured?

Yeah. Dylan Elise is Houdini. He's a great drummist. Like the article states - fact.

I think this is him with a band-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqA2Ogl6BFk



Playing with a track

I like this kid.... Fun to watch. But the drumming spectrum
is very wide. Watching him do what he does is just one,
TINY aspect of what the drumming aspect has to offer. Are
the Harlem Globe Trotters great basketball players, or great
showmen on the basketball court? Spanky has posted quite
a few clips of Tony Royster Jr. Cool stuff to watch and listen
to... But it's always the same kind of situation where the band
is his back drop for him to show his chops. That, or he's doing
that gospel chops trading thing with a bunch of other drummers.

So it's not just about playing in a band, but what you say and how
you say it when you're there. My point with this though, is it's the
colaborative effort with others that truly determines your status as
a musical artist. Outside of a concerto situation (Solo violinist etc.), I
challenge you to show me when this has not been so.

Show me some discography, some colaboration with other players
outside of the 'looky what I can do situation'. It really surprises me
how so many experienced players get caught up in this sort of thing.

Sure, I'll call this kid great at what he does but I haven't seen anything
that would warrant me calling him a "great drummer". Just how many
greats do we have?! When you start naming the Blakeys, Papa Jo's,
the Jones', Williams, White's Gadd's, Riches, Cobham's, etc..... How
many of these youtube showman have truly earned the "great" status
next to these bench mark legends who have set the standard of greatness
by colaboration AND by themselves?! Is this what you consider "moot"?
Cmon!

Today, "Great" is an adjective that's used way too loosely. Everyone is so
caught up in the slick tricks and flash.... It's no wonder legitimate music has
fallen by the wayside.

Now, with all that said, I think Dylan is very inspirational. I hope to see him
make his mark in more musical settings. I'll leave the rest of this thread to
you guys.

"Outside of a concerto situation (Violinist etc.), I
challenge you to show me when this has not been so.

Show me some discography, some colaboration with other players
outside of the 'looky what I can do situation'. It really surprises me
how so many experienced players get caught up in this sort of thing." DSlam

It is not so anymore. Before Gene Krupa show me where drummers had any kind of spotlight? What Bozzio and others do Krupa could never do. Things change. Standards have changed. Maybe Dylan Elise will never be able to find a spot in a band that affords him wide exposure. If you measure greatness by wide recorded or live group exposure, no, Dylan Elise is not "great." If you measure greatness by technical ability, musicality, etc., on the instrument itself, then this young man is just as much a natural as Buddy Rich. This guy is doing things effortlessly. Take away all the stick spinning and he is still a great drummist, imho. With the showmanship it is even more entertaining, same as many of those drummers he considers influences who do it as well - Minneman, Blackwell Jr., Lang and others he mentions on his page. I see no difference in his talent compared to theirs. To me, the stick spinning is an icing on the cake, as it were. What he does fundamentally with his limbs is great drumming.

If greatness is determined by "impact" on the drumming community, no, I don't see Dylan Elise doing anything other drummers out there do not do. But if I go back to Buddy and Mel greatness is not doing something original. Mel was not original. But Mel was a great drummer according to Buddy.

Perhaps greatness is determined by the blindfold test. I know Baker when I hear him. I know Billy when I hear him. I know Elvin when I hear him, and Art. If greatness is determined by personal style that is recognizable, the list of great drummers shrinks dramatically.

In my eyes I will never see Barry Bonds as great as Willie Mays or Hank Aaron, but to say Bonds is not great because of what he can do with a bat would be incorrect (enhancement drugs aside, of course). And to add to the analogy, many know of players in the Negro leagues who had nowhere near the kind of exposure Henry Aaron had who would as easily say those players were astoundingly great.

BTW, having seen the Globe Trotters back in the day, I would say they were great basketball players who were great entertainers as well.

Of course, that brings up another aspect within the analogy. Many say High school athletes are "great." They go on college and do "great" things. Maybe they never go Pro, or do and earn no outstanding merits as pro athletes. They just stand within the spectrum of several hundred athletes who can play at that level. Is that great? I believe so.

In my eyes I will never see Barry Bonds as great as Willie Mays or Hank Aaron, but to say Bonds is not great because of what he can do with a bat would be incorrect (enhancement drugs aside, of course). And to add to the analogy, many know of players in the Negro leagues who had nowhere near the kind of exposure Henry Aaron had who would as easily say those players were astoundingly great.

Thank you for that! My point precisely.... Barry Bonds was a great HITTER!

No way could he ever be compared as the same all-around ball player as his
god father, Who in my opinion was the best all around player in the history of
the game.... And with NO drugs. When they show clips of Barry what are they going
to be? I'll tell you, him at the plate with bat in hand. When they show Willie's clips,
it will be bat in hand, his base running and his fielding prowess. So, does Bonds' exceptional
hitting abilities make him a great ball player. I don't ever remember seeing "The Babe" catch
a ball...... You?!

Like the rest of the world, you're right, things have changed but the standards for those things
that are truly authentic have not. And that's the difference. Because the Trotters worked in a collective
effort, my example was based from that platform. So to put such a team up against the Bulls
or the Lakers would be suicide. Their specialty is entertainment, not winning games
and championships. Drummers are entertainers also. But for me and I believe most others,
the larger side of that element of entertainment is based on MAKING MUSIC which will forever
Be THE standard, and not that of side show amusment.

And when players are deemed as "great" based on these things, then things really HAVE changed,
and not for the better.

Incidentally, I personally never really thought Krupa was all that.

Of course, that brings up another aspect within the analogy. Many say High school athletes are "great." They go on college and do "great" things. Maybe they never go Pro, or do and earn no outstanding merits as pro athletes. They just stand within the spectrum of several hundred athletes who can play at that level. Is that great? I believe so.

I absolutely agree with that! That's the very "standard" I speak of.
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with popularity.

I guess I see Dylan Elise as a great drummer simply because he is doing great things at the drum set.

I mean they DO have home run derbies at the All-Star game, and those guys are almost always referred to as great ball players regardless of length of career.

Back in the days of some of the drummers you mention there was one basic genre - jazz. We cannot know what those drummers would have done behind the set in a MO context, or RTF, or ELP, etc. They excelled at jazz drumming. In that sense they were great hitters.

I watched a vid on youtube of Tony last night. He mentioned drummers like Dawson, who play with great technical ability; drummers like Art who play with great passion, and drummers like Max who played with great creativity. Aside from Art's mighty buzz rolls I have never seen Art called a great technician. But Art was certainly great at what he did.

Dylan is young. But by standards of technique, passion and creativity that young man is a great drummist. And he can obviously play with other musicians as shown above.

Like you the stick spinning gets old pretty fast for me. If Tony ever spun a stick I never saw it. But obviously any serious drummer can watch Tony play all day long. And if Tony never played with Miles, but had all that facility, never struck out with his own bands and still totally took command of a drum set on a street somewhere, Tony Williams would be a great drummist.

I might also say, with the wording you used, and perhaps the word "great" is overused nowadays, but there is, in my mind, a great difference between a great drummer and a legendary drummer.

BTW, were not many of the Globetrotters former professional players? That's how I remember them being introduced when I was a kid.

It's all good, Asaph. It was a pleasure debating with you. Very productive.... Thanks!

Likewise, my friend.