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The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal)

+4
Alex Sanguinetti
Ted E. Bear
Suss
Admin (Pete)
8 posters

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1The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:54 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

THIS THREAD, SPANS THE TIME FROM 2005
TO 2008.

READ ON FOR THE SOME OF THE HISTORY.

_____________________________________

I have the pedal and have been working
with it for the last few days (2005).

Here are some notes and photos:

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa1

(This shows the Philips screws that adjust clamp
for the rim, which I had a problem with, as you
recall, when I first encountered the pedal, in
San Diego.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa2

(This shows the base of the flex footboard. You
can see the two Allen screws that are concerned.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa3

(This shows the key in the screws)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa4

(This shows the first cam adjustment, up top.
It's a split cam adjustment. That is the first half.
You put the key in there and loosen it, and you
will notice the gears, which adjust the beater
arc, also affecting the tension. The teeth are
very fine.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa5

(This is the other half of the cam. Though only
about a half inch adjustable, this makes a world
of a difference in the feel of the storke.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa6

(Here I am, adjusting it with the key.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa7

(Here, I am adjusting the top half.)


The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa8

(This is the screw, at the tip of the footboard,
toward the head, whick allows the board to
be pushed in towards the head, changing the
action. You'd be surprise at how much.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa9

(This shows me adjusting it and revealing the
teeth (gear) I mentioned before, on the top
half. This is really an ingenious idea.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa10

(There's another closeup, showing the teeth.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa11

(Here's a view showing a different setting and
from that angle. You get an idea of the beater-
pulldown lever.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa12

(There's a picture of the beater. Pretty cool.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa13

(This picture shows you the angle of the pull-
down, which is very much how the Axis does
it's pulling. It gives you maximum pullback.)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Boa14

(This shows the clamp [pretty standard], which
works perfectly.)

This should give you an idea.



Last edited by on Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:52 pm; edited 6 times in total

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2The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:11 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Admin (Pete) wrote:I should let you know that I wrote
Bob Gatzen and when I reminded
him of this frustration I have endured,
dealing with DW on the pedal, he cont-
acted people and they are sending me
the parts concerned but I did not stop
there. I detailed a 900 word report on
every aspect of the pedal, with sol-
utions for the problems. I was posit-
ive on the positive and negative on
the negative and most importantly,
why. So, this chapter comes to a
half-close and I will let you know of
further developments in the future.

That's the way to do it, Pete, I've always believed that if you present a problem, at least try to have some sort of solution for that problem waiting in the wing. I definately believe you are going about it the right way. Idea

Don.

3The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:21 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Btw, Pete,

You been practicing knife catching, or did you just go postal on somebady? What's up wit all the bandaids on the fingers, playah? confused

4The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:36 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Those photos were back in 2005.
I was playing bigger sticks and
busting up my hands. I have since
lightened up a tad.

afro

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5The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:01 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Admin (Pete) wrote:Those photos were back in 2005.
I was playing bigger sticks and
busting up my hands. I have since
lightened up a tad.

afro

Dang, dude!!! Shocked Shocked No

6The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:25 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

They have had pictures. Jon
Dewey was the last guy I spoke
to, over there.

Here's one for you all to see.

http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=142010dj7.jpg

If it breaks and you hear it rub against
itself, the way to get through it is by
making sure the break is more sep-
arated. It will happen near the bottom,
by the holes and where the tension is
the loosest.

You will also note the finish on the
cover-plate coming off. Inevitable.

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7The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:28 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Well, I sent them 900 words on
the pedal, its issues and I even
included all the solutions.

It will accompany the broken foot-
plate and Hold-Down Plate.

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8The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:32 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

I just wanted to update you guys
in the DW fiasco. Unreal. I know.

DO NOT BUY THIS PEDAL UNTIL
I TELL YOU IT'S SAFE.

https://bcwtj.forumotion.com

9The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:20 pm

Suss

Suss

Thanks Pete... I'm not in the market now for another pedal, though I should be.

Too many other things going on in a positive way, I think.

Yet I wanted to thank you for your analysis and candor!

You Are The Man!

Cool

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10The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:37 am

D. Slam

D. Slam

I gotta tell you, Pete. The fact that they put this pedal under the Pacific banner was a BIG RED FLAG for me. I remember mentioning this to you some time ago shortly after you purchased and received this pedal. All of DW's top pro pedals among their other high end gear goes under the DW banner while their lesser gear is placed under the Pacific banner. Truthfully, Pete I'm a bit surprised that you didn't find this move to be a bit suspect.

As far as I'm concerned, they can keep that thing. Way too many other good pedals out there to be going through all that trouble for something they put in their novice lineup. No

Don.

11The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:29 am

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

It was a sign, Don, even
way back, in 2003, when
I was given information
about it, including the
pricing etc.

I have hope that they
will wake up about it. I
told them exactly what
to do to fix. They have
to decide to do it. Word
has spread fast.

It really is a great design
that just needs a fix.

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12The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:50 pm

Ted E. Bear

Ted E. Bear

If and when they do fix it Pete, you should be given credit in the design patent not to mention a lifetime supply of these pedals [providing of course you still want to use them]. I'm amazed at the patience you've shown them and the money invested in postage mailing stuff to them. I've never used their products, but your experiences have definitely made me never want to either. Good luck ! Peace, TED

http://www.drumminfool.com

13The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:59 pm

Alex Sanguinetti

Alex Sanguinetti

Hi, Pete, very interesting all your bass drum threads.

I'm not much into bass drum pedals, t'hough through the week (any) I always play a number of them (10 different at least).

At the end of the 80's when I chose the Camco over the DW, being the main reason is much softer (spring) and lighter which is what I need for my playing. Before that I used tons of others like I'm sure most of you (at least 30 I would say, some I like some I didn't but can remember any longer how they feel, 'though I remember a CAF, copy of the Rogers Swiv-o-matic, that I like).

Vintage Argy Bass Drum Pedals (circa 1972)

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) PedalesArgentinos1977

But, since then, I had use for gigs only the Camco THE LAST 20 years, without even adjusting it once (it's always in the minimun tension).

I play with the foot a few centimeters out of the foot board, mostly flat footed.

I do have other two, a Speed King, as a substitute just in case I have a problem with mine (never did-never used it yet) and a very cheap chinese modificated WHICH IS MY FAVORITE (you will laugh when you see the photo). It's unbeatible in the department light, I play many hours a day with this one EVERY DAY.

My favorite pedal

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) BassDrumPedalD

When I say that during the week I play several pedals is because I play at students sets and school sets.

Anyway, from these kids pedal one really good, very LIGHT and very powerful and precise is the Basix. Basix is a German company that makes drums in China (as far as I know). Is an entry level kit but everything works excellent.

I have to pick a pedal for a student in these weeks who has a pedal that does not work properly, is so hard the kid has to jump (never mind adjustment, I tried it all) or avoids playing it. It's a Pearl that comes with a relative new Export (5 years). I must say I also played another set like this with the same pedal and IN THIS OCCASION the pedal was great. I will keep you updated!

Of course, always talking about CHEAP pedals that work good for me.

Best regards,

http://www.alexsanguinetti.com

14The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:37 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Great design? Maybe so... Unfortunately,cheaply manufactured parts and poor quality control can and will quickly kick a great design to the curb. This pedal was designed in such a way to cut cost to the consumer. The problem with that is they first cut cost to themselves by cutting corners. The consumer will always wind up swallowing that in the end.

Sorry for all your troubles, bro.... "I feel your pain." Sad

Don.

15The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:57 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Alex,

Cool direct-drive pedal. Very!!
Can you do me a favor and take
a picture, from the side, with the
pedal depressed and the beater
vertical, Alex? I would appreciate
a look at that old baby!

Don,

Well, it sucks. It's true. Sometimes,
big companies are the ones that take
an individual's idea and bastardize it
to the point, where it's totally differ-
ent than what it started out as.

I am not sure how this one falls.

What I do know is that I played this
thing every way to Sunday and even
while it was broken and I found that
I could do things with it that I could
not, with other pedals. I guess I am
passionate about getting this fix
done because I believe it is almost
there - almost to that point, where
it really does command the respect
that a guy like Bob Gatzen deserves,
for coming up with it.

Design to the production floor always
changes and I think that is what hap-
pened, here. Let's see if they can do
this fix. I have heard nothing from DW
or Bob. They are probably pissed that
I am so adamant. When they think
about it, though, they'll drink the
coffee - eventually. There is just no
way around it.

I get more questions about pedals,
these days. People want them. At
this 'ridiculous' market price, during
a very inflationary time, there is
only a small window for them to
grab a public before they go back
to more bare-bones thinking about
pedal-needs and of course, their
abilities for their pocketbooks to
withstand these costs, in a time
of increasing competition in the
industry. Things are changing.

At $200, you better deliver.

All it takes is .5 or 1mm more. I
mean - c'mon. It is a no-brainer.
Let's see if they wake up. Just
replace the boards with new ones.
It is easy to do. It just takes a
commitment from Bob and his
backers to think about us for
a change and I don't mean the
change in THEIR pockets.

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16The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:06 am

Suss

Suss

This thread is the very reason why I appreciate the exchange among us when it comes to the mechanical issues we as drummers are faced with every time we get behind our (or anyone else's) kits.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME, but I tend to think that at times drummers with both inspiration and the equipment at hand should be versatile.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND, however, that when it is in our power determine what we play upon, Pete's anaysis is on point.

In simple terms Pete is a BETA TESTER of what should be beyond what is. Patents can be another issue when granted, yet I agree with Ted when stating that refinements and modifications are as material to the product as was the original flawed design.

For me (and personally), I've learned to make whatever adjustmentss are necessary to play what is before me as it relates to the equipment in supporting (under girding) the music. Don't get me wrong: sometimes it's as smooth as silk; yet other times it takes time to adjust with the same (expected/desired) results.

Overall, I appreciate Papa Pete's diligence within this thread and will rely upon shis and others' what they offer as well.

Ultimately, as with music, it is a matter of feel and leverage with pedals in mind. Milk it for everything its worth in a creative flow. And if that piece of equipment might fail in a 'live' performane, then be prepared to compensate with other colors (however challenging that may seem and what I've experienced in the past).

Thanks Pete for your in depth analysis. I hope the manufacturer will come to listen without the politics or economics involved. So far it doesn't appear so, to their debit and your credit.

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17The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:25 am

Alex Sanguinetti

Alex Sanguinetti

Admin (Pete) wrote:Alex,

Cool direct-drive pedal. Very!!
Can you do me a favor and take
a picture, from the side, with the
pedal depressed and the beater
vertical, Alex? I would appreciate
a look at that old baby!

Dear Pete,

That bass drum pedal (is not too old, I would say very early 90's - end of 80's) I used for teaching and practicing at home (so it gets played many hour a day). I use it in a 14 Bass Drum with a regular drum rim (not bass drum hoop) and I don't connect it to it, it just lays NEXT to it ('hope you understand). To actually fotograph it "grabbing" a Bass Drum Hoop I have to pull out any of the other bass drums I have (4) that are in cases "ready to go" to gigs and try it there, hahaha.

In the meantime you can see the Camco on the 14 Bass drum in action (is similar but the "funky" one is much lighter, also just NEXT to it, not grabbing the hoop. Please let me know if you can see this because I been experiencing problems with my website:

LINK: http://site238.webhost4life.com/alexsanguine/AlexSanguinettiDrumsMunich1995.wmv

Best regards!

http://www.alexsanguinetti.com

18The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:28 am

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Coolness, Alex! I owe this
sudden interest (blame) of
mine in smaller kicks to you!!

lol!

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19The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:26 pm

Alex Sanguinetti

Alex Sanguinetti



OK, I went to a 18 Bass Drum and gripped it to it as well.

Look what I used to depress the pedal Very Happy !

Remember this pedal is not explosive but reacts really fast, is very sensible.

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) FunkyBassDrum1

Best regards!

Alex Sanguinetti

http://www.alexsanguinetti.com

20The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:28 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Excellent, Alex!! Thanks!!

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21The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:09 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

Admin (Pete) wrote:Well, at this time, the final
word on all this is that there
will not be a "fix" for the issue
of the cracking flex-board.

They acknowledge the cracks
but believe they do not impede
the performance of the pedals.

Of course, I disagree, as it was
the noise, which they caused
that brought my attention to
them in the first place but it
does not matter. It is what it
is. That is the end of it.

He (Rich) offered me a refund
or replacement parts. I asked
him for as many flex-boards
as he could spare, knowing
that every one of them will
break. We'll see how many
they send.

I am frankly surprised that
a flex-board, which I can
break, with my arthritic, bare
hands, will continue to be sold,
with these pedals.

So, the buck stopped there.

All this has been just from your use from home and local church performances. I find myself wondering what shape this gadget would be in right now had it been subjected to consistant performance and the constant riggors of setups and tear downs. I play on average about 3 times a week. Many times that turns into 5 days. When I go out with EC, we will have days where we're performing six straight days at 6 different venues. And the music is quite dynamic and high energy. I play pretty forceful when I play with her because that's what she wants. That Boa would probably be in pieces. The fact that they're not working to fix these problems doesn't really surprise me. I'm feeling though that what you say is true, Pete. It'll get so bad in the complaint department that they'll have to do something. Even if it means discontinuing the pedal.

They know the flex-board has a history of cracking, yet they won't fix it because they don't believe it impedes performance.... Shocked Question Question Question scratch

Give me a fricken break! Rolling Eyes

Don.

P.S. Hey, Alex are you sure that pedal isn't that old?! I think I see a caveman footprint on that mutha! lol! Seriously though, Alex, if it works for you, that's all that matters.

22The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:47 pm

Alex Sanguinetti

Alex Sanguinetti

D. Slam wrote: P.S. Hey, Alex are you sure that pedal isn't that old?! I think I see a caveman footprint on that mutha! lol! Seriously though, Alex, if it works for you, that's all that matters.

Dear Don,

I don't know, for me things from the 80's are not what I call old. Since we are both about the same age and we've been playing about the same time (it's possible that you started earlier 'though, I started at 13), like you I've seen how equipment has changed during these years, plus we are aware of how it was also before we started (more or less).

So equipment from the 80's I basically consider modern, or contemporary equipment, imagine from the 90's, hahaha.

What I mean is that the drums from the 80's and 90's they are almost the same as today. In the earliest 70's it was significant different, as it was in the 60's (pretty different from the 70's). The drums during the 50's were not in my opinion too different from the ones in the 60's, but they were in the 40's and ...

I'm not sure if you agree...

In any case, I don't break any equipment, (sticks, skins, pedals, cymbals or anything) so in general I concentrate in light equipment (to play and transport). You wouldn't believe how lite are my cymbals stands, for instance, lighter that the ones made in the 60's (which I own too), I also play very much and hate to carry the drums (no roadie ever of course).

I can put all my drumset, cymbals and hardware in the trunk of a small european regular car. And still is plenty space for other things or instruments - in the trunk, this of course with an 18 Bass Drum, not to count bass drums of smaller sizes.

Now if I would play louder music (or however you prefer to call it), the only change I would need to make, in my opinion, is the size of the bass drum, and a bit the direction of my cymbals. Of my hardware only I should change the bass drum pedal to have more attack.

In any case I'm not against progress at all, in fact I'm always trying new things. I'm glad the companies keep experimenting and bringing new products to the market all the time, some are useful for me and others not. But some of the ones I don't need might be very useful for others and it's all cool for me.

Better to have a lot of choice that just a few.

Have a great day, guys!

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) AlexSet

Oh, by the way, exactly 30 years back!

The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) PhotoAlex18

Alex Sanguinetti



Last edited by on Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:32 pm; edited 4 times in total

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23The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:55 am

Alex Sanguinetti

Alex Sanguinetti

Admin (Pete) wrote:What I see that has changed are the materials being used in the manufacturing ...

Dear Pete,

Materials, design, complely new articles and additions, etc.

It's like in music, some people do very especific types of music, trying to recreate as much as posible, for example, the 60's (like making good drums of the 60's), others make music mixing a lot of styles, tendencies, etc.

To me is all fine and healthy, as long as it sounds good.

Best regards,

Alex

http://www.alexsanguinetti.com

24The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:40 pm

Admin (Pete)

Admin (Pete)
Admin

Yes, Alex. It is all good.



Last edited by on Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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25The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Empty Re: The Boa-Pedal (Gatzen Pedal) Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:10 pm

D. Slam

D. Slam

"We"?!

You sound like an Oakland Raider fan. They are always talking about "WE". I usually ask to see the checks that Raiders' owner Al Davis pays them with. lol!

On a more Serious note, I agree with Ted, They should give you pedals and parts for life, Pete.

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