Just came across this...not drum related!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU6KMYlDyWc&feature=related

Let's better not discuss this, but its really really interesting and fairly scary!!!
8:50 ! ! !

Peace
Niki

I think this hindsight view is obvious, Niki and has been that
way for a long time. Some good did come out of it as Mr.
Powell has pointed out, but some serious, regretful, mistakes
were made.

I concur, D. BTW I believe Colin Powell is a decent human being.
I did not know that intelligence was based on one mad guy who was sitting in a German jail. That seems as if somebody was really interested in going into Iraq, but for other reasons we don't really know. There's surely no rational reason to find - and thats scary, because I thought leaders of democracies would be confessed to rationality.
And that would makes some elite group of people of that time to criminals before international law. I didn't know about how ridiculous the CIA worked in this case and it surely was influenced by some group of people, most likely of the administration of that time.
Anyway...thats international politics I guess...as my late grandfather always told me: "The first thing which dies in a war is the truth."
I'm confused though, because it seems as if the truth dies before the war - or the death of truth is the reason of war.
So, I guess its better to even start to watch out for truth not to die even before somebody wants to start a war..

Best
Niki

"Rationality??!!" Let me tell you, Power doesn't
have to be absolute to corrupt absolutely!

true words!!

It was all about securing and controlling the flow of oil. That's it. All these people are puppets to that end. They can talk on all the news shows they want. They are skirting the issue and that is total economic control of oil.

I really wish it was all about oil...These Middle East affairs go far beyond that unfortunately.

Daveonskins wrote:I really wish it was all about oil...These Middle East affairs go far beyond that unfortunately.

I totally agree, Dave. Almost everyone says that....

The truth is there is a large SURPLUS of oil right here
in the US that the powers that be are just sitting on.

The middle East situation is about much more than oil...
If that at all.

Do tell us then, what are these wars started over?
human rights? I don't think so. liberation? hah that's rich!

Your views are your views, Kenny... I'll leave it to D.L. to debate
it with you should he deem it necessary.

Respect.

Too deep a topic for me to get into any kind of Debate.
Have fun guys..haha

It's called "peak oil." We've passed it, nations know it, and everything is now about oil. The planet functions on oil. The entire food chain depends on oil. Industry, transportation, everything depends on oil. We've passed the peak. It's all downhill now and more wars will be fought to make sure nations have access to it. Globalists want total control of it. They will stop at nothing to get it. The American "empire" will fight more wars over it, unless Washington can be stopped in their madness of either empire builders or globalist fascism.

Alternative energy is great, but until it's actually affordable and has easier access by Americans and the world, OIL is the bottom line.

The bottom line is POWER! And if that power could be aquired
by having the most oil then the Middle East would surely not
be in control of it as we speak, as there are countries that are
clearly mightier than they are and could quite easily take from
them what many precieve as the "bottm line."

It's very obvious that the one that has the most oil does not have
the biggest stick... At least as far as the middle east is concerned.

Sorry, Asaph... But that just doesn't add up.

I do however believe that oil keeps the dough rolling in for many
of the powers that be. Thus, burocracy and red tape will play a
role in alternative energy for a long time or at least until they can
get their hands in the kitty.

Kinda like drugs.... When governments figure out how to ease
their hand in the cookie jar without looking like the hypocrites
they really are, then illegal drugs will become legal.

The bottom line is kids are dying over this dumb stuff in Iraq....many thousands of Iraqi civilians dead. True, we all got mad when the towers fell, but what gives one country the right to invade another? Might makes right?

How much money do you spend at the pump, D? How much do you pay for groceries? How much do you pay for everything considering the value of a dollar? I'd say OEPC has plenty of power.

America gains no power by going to war in Iraq or Afghanistan. They gain allies in a world where most of the oil is owned by people who hate America.

America, nor any other nation, cannot just "take" anything when one sixth of the population of planet earth is Muslim. Are you kidding? Especially is this the case with more Islamic nations gaining nuclear fire power. No. This is under the table stuff day in and day out.

The American "empire," globalist bankers, the Vatican, China, Islam. Those are the major players and who knows who is in bed with who?

I agree to a point, rare. And that's to the point
that I understand that freedom isn't free!

Many have given their lives so that we may have
the luxury of doing what we do. When HASN'T
it been as such?

Asaph, don't confuse power with leverage.
They are not necessarily one and the same.
As there are times when leverage can stifle
power. The danger there is when power feels
it has nothing to lose, is when leverage loses it's
edge.

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.”

“Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."


“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.”

“But today our very survival depends on our ability to stay awake, to adjust to new ideas, to remain vigilant and to face the challenge of change. The large house in which we live demands that we transform this world-wide neighborhood into a world – wide brotherhood. Together we must learn to live as brothers or together we will be forced to perish as fools.

We must work passionately and indefatigably to bridge the gulf between our scientific progress and our moral progress. One of the great problems of mankind is that we suffer from a poverty of the spirit which stands in glaring contrast to our scientific and technological abundance. The richer we have become materially, the poorer we have become morally and spiritually.”


Martin Luther King

Definition of LEVERAGE
1
: the action of a lever or the mechanical advantage gained by it
2
: power, effectiveness <trying to gain more political leverage>
3
: the use of credit to enhance one's speculative capacity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/leverage

kenny wrote:"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.”

Kenny, When did wiping out 7,000,000 Jews in an attempt to commit genicide become "legal"?!

For cryin out loud, man!!! Disecting your brain and analyzing your process of thought would
yield some interesting results I bet!


Asaph, as I said, leverage does not as a rule define power. But it does define advantage in
given situations.

Have you ever seen the movie "300"?

That was a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King.
You just dissed his words. I was looking for an
amazing quote of his maybe i can find it still.

The men in power/governments make the laws now.
Hitler ordered the systematic murder of those people.
Thou shalt not kill was not in his legal manual apparently.

here's more from the man;

" We all have the drum major instinct. We all want to be important, to surpass others, to achieve distinction, to lead the parade. ... And the great issue of life is to harness the drum major instinct. It is a good instinct if you don't distort it and pervert it. Don't give it up. Keep feeling the need for being important. Keep feeling the need for being first. But I want you to be the first in love. I want you to be the first in moral excellence. I want you to be the first in generosity."
Martin Luther King

I don't care WHO said it! Hitler
had NO "legal" or any other kind of right to
exterminate 7,000,000 people.

And if Martin Luther King actually said that then
HE dissed every person of Jewish descent.

Though I personally would like to believe that
I'm taking it out of context. But those are pretty
direct words!

Not knowing the exact context King spoke in, I imagine he was summarizing Hitler's moves BEFORE the holocaust. Everything Hitler did, to set up the holocaust, was, as I understand it, legal, according to German law at the time. That is not to say Hitler did not play dirty politics to get where he had total authority.

There are many watching events in the USA which could lead to the same type of scenario. Maybe not an outright dictator, but as Hitler moved to change law, and the rule of law, so are politicians in this nation.

Maybe the point is that Hitler came to power through democratic elections!

Its interesting that once elected we don't really have an insight on whats going on, especially in international politics. For example, one of the basic Neo-Liberal founding dogmas is, that people should not have too much power and should know too much, because basically they are fools who neither have enough knowledge nor information to really understand what "is needed to be done".

Also an approach to democracy...

A very interesting analogy, Niki and one I tend
to agree with. Major leaders that are fronted for
the powers that really be. Has anyone noticed the
current presidential candidates for the upcoming
election? Comical!!! And when there is one that
knows what's going on and tries to shake up the
status quo, he's blocked and made to look bad at
almost every turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBKKh0C2eo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YAv_tPmho


very interesting! I guess all of that is even more true for Iraq, because its a fact that Saddam Hussain was anti-Al Kaida and didn't have any weapons of mass destruction. So, what are and were the reasons for this wars? Bombing and killing thousands of innocent people of whole nations to find some terrorists? If thats what the reason is, then good night.

It is possible that democratic elected people turn into some nasty madness, because of a strong believe and faith in something. It is a fact that the Nazis - in order to be able to start a war - dressed up dead Polish people in German uniforms in order to have a reason to attack Poland. That started the world war in 1939. Its only 70+ years ago. And you know what? My grandfather believed in it until he came to realize that if there is war the first thing which dies, is the truth.

I'm not trying to give any analogy now. I'm just saying: A lot is possible. Watch out. And ask yourselve questions to what might go on. Before you go into war or send people into war or support sending people into war, really question yourselve and the system you are living in.

Niki