Whiplash (Drummer Horror Film)

Hi, Asaph,

In answer to your first question to me and assuming that you are referring
to my experience with the abusive person on the road:

The answer is both.  The players in the band shared their frustrations AND
would simply retreat into their spaces, sigh and suck it up and keep going.

Funny thing...  I would approach her during an intermission and inquire of
the problem she was having with me and she would be accommodating,
even amicable in giving me that information.  It's as if she didn't want
to face me one on one off stage when dealing with the issues she was
having on stage.  Things got better as time went on but she was such
that you never really knew when she was going to go off.  The ground
became to unstable for me so I left.

also being in the situation of being out on the road WITH HER, in HER
Vehicle gave us players a lot less leverage.  I could only imagine it was
very similar with Buddy.  That was HIS bus and if you rubbed him the
wrong way you'd get kicked off possibly out in the middle of who knows
where.  According to one of the volatile, recorded Buddy rants, that's
Precisely what happened.

Thing is I think these recordings were made at a time before he started
using the college kids in his band.  These were seasoned players well
out of college..  Whatever the case I can only imagine how tough this
had to be.

As to Buddy's later playing years, word is that he mellowed noticeably.
I remember speaking with the late, Dave Carpenter when he played one
of Billy's tours in the early 90's.  He also toured with Buddy and he told
me how mellow and easy going he was on the dates shortly before his
passing.

Check your PM.

"Thing is I think these recordings were made at a time before he started
using the college kids in his band. These were seasoned players well
out of college.. Whatever the case I can only imagine how tough this
had to be." DSlam

I don't know. Has anyone ever put a date upon the recordings? Those that I have heard he mentions "young punks," and statements focused towards the youth of some band members.

Sheesh, in one some guy answers back and Buddy threatens him with physical harm, certainly probable for a black belt. Criminal abuse.

I just don't see criminal abuse, or any abuse, rising a young musician to another level. Pushing is one thing. Abuse is another.

Did you feel (I don't know your age) like performing better for your abusive female leader, which, in and of itself, is pretty demoralizing?

It was an experience for sure, and we always grow from an experience, positive or negative, if we choose to, as you say.

I think the movie would have made more sense if Teller's character had a poor relationship with his father. Can't please dad, so I'll please this band director no matter what. But his relationship with his father was portrayed as decent, if not mundane. Why would someone with a decent father figure put up with such abuse? Tuition? Expensive. Failure not an option. Band accolades? But the kid could have joined other bands at the school. He chose Simmon's, not knowing what he was in for, then, in the midst of humiliation what do you do? You attempt to save face. The thing is, the director is just plain nuts. We see no redemption of his brutality by movie's end. We just see a supposed victory of it. Especially is that the case in messing up the Papa Jo story to do it.

That was bizarre for me.

One thing I found kind of interesting concerning the relationship with his dad
and family was his talent was pretty much side stepped while his brother who,
if I remember correctly was an athlete of some sort. I can see this sort of
thing pushing some kid to extreme behavior.

"Did you feel (I don't know your age) like performing better for your abusive female leader, which, in and of itself, is pretty demoralizing?"

I wanted to fix the problem whatever it was in her eyes.
But the real problem was that I replaced a drummer who
had left that she really liked... I wasn't him and made no
effort to try and be him. I gave what I had. If that
ain't good enough, then see ya!

"abusive female leader, which, in and of itself, is pretty demoralizing?"

If what you mean by that, the fact that this person was female, I want
to make it clear that her gender never was a factor in this, only the way
she treated me. It was never a thing with me of: Who does this WOMAN
think she is?! My concern was only with how I was being treated. It
would have been exactly the same had it been a man.

Is that E.C. Scott you're talking about, Don???

But the real problem was that I replaced a drummer who
had left that she really liked...
D
________________________

Hi D, I'm not sure if your quoting these statements from the movie or not. I have not seen it yet. I'm thinking your speaking in a real life scenario here? Anyway if so, I'm sorry the gig went south on you due to possible personality flaws. I may be off here, but do you think the woman had more than just a professional level relationship with her prior drummer? At times, that can only compound band problems because then it can become personal and outside of the music. I've worked with women in a band and in most cases they were very sensitive to the music more less the musicians they worked along side. In fact the two women I worked with I gladly welcomed them in preparing our meals before rehearsals...very practical. But in my business (graphics) they can never decide on a color and that drove me wacko!  

I guess just another one where we only get better learning from.

Shalom,
Rac

Nice one rac, how many sexist stereotypes can you get in a post? Get with the times pilgrim!

There was no intention of being a sexist here. And what's with the pilgrim thing here?

rac

whatever you may have intended I got a good laugh outta that! What does gender have to do with it. Read your post it's hilarious. I feel like I fell in a time machine and woke up in 1950s Mormon country. That's ok it takes all kinds. I thought it was funny! I gladly welcome them preparing my meals but they can't make up their minds. hilarious! maybe they had more than a professional relationship. You're killin me! Or, Maybe she was just a nasty unprofessional person on stage with no care of other people's dignity. or she had a drinking problem that helped her to make bad decisions, perhaps. Oh yeah that. I don't know what you intended that was some funny observations. Prepare my meals that's awesome

I was referring to myself, Rac.  And no, there was nothing going on between them
on a personal level.  I know them both.  Breeze (the preceding drummer just got tired
of the road and wanted more time with his family.  We were doing 3 tours a year from
California to New Brunswick Canada and anywhere in between.  We'd do crazy stuff
like drive from California to Chicago or St. Lewis nonstop...  Ridiculous!

Once we drove up to St Helena Montana, played a show then jumped immediately off
stage and into the Van and drove 17 hours nonstop to Omaha Nebraska, Played a
festival there, came off the stage right into the van for another 17 hour trip BACK to
Montana for another show.  It got better once everyone got tired of the van and
started flying...  The thing is after awhile, I then became that drummer that she didn't
want to replace but I had pretty much had my fill by then as she could still be very
volatile.

Incidentally,  I thought California was a beautiful state but Montana took my breath
away!  I've been to a lot of places.  Philadelphia which I really enjoyed. New York city.
I also enjoyed visiting the New England area, Newport, RI. Providence, Boston,
Hartford Connecticut and Maine Alberta and New Brunswick Canada.  The Atlantic
Ocean.  

I'll never forget getting up early in the morning to see for the first time the sun rise
out of the Pacific ocean instead of setting in it from the eastern shores of Kauai.
Diamond head and the white sand beaches and crystal clear emerald waters of Honolulu,
Oahu.  The eerie volcanic steam vents and lava caves of the big Island and the rugged
inner mountains of Maui.  And that's not even the half of it.

I've been very fortunate and there were more good times than bad for sure.  I can never
tell you how grateful I am to have had those experiences.

In fact the two women I worked with I gladly welcomed them in preparing
our meals before rehearsals...very practical.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that.  Did you welcome them to the meals
you prepared or did you welcome them to prepare the meals before rehearsal?

And for the record, Kenny, she was an AWESOME performer with a show scripted
to the T. Among the best performers I have ever seen. And no, she didn't have
a drinking problem. Unfortunately, there were more than a few times that she was
just outright mean and verbally abusive to her players for whatever reason.

Hi D,

Man, you've travel just about the entire US. And what's cool about that is that you were gigging those places. The farthest I gigged from the islands was way up in Folsom, way north of California. Being that I'm locally from here, I nearly froze my end off. It was during the winter where it was my first time experiencing snow. We played in a tavern overlooking beautiful Lake Emerald...breathtaking!

Yeah man, you were in some of the most beautiful places on my islands that's for sure. Today, the main volcano on the Big island has been restless, more than usual. It nearly hit one of the little towns there, just shy of a few miles. The locals were stressing out thinking they had to move but it still would be a good idea to doing that not knowing when the volcano will erupt again. It's unpredictable. I can remember when real estate was ridiculously cheap being in the danger area. That was 15 years ago today those regions are under lava! Glad I didn't invest then. But maybe you may pass through here again and maybe we can hook up. I know you guys were on the go most your time here.

Aloha,
Rac

Oh man, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Tennessee, Utah, Idaho, Iowa,
Michigan, Kansas, Alabama, Ohio, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Virginia, W. Virginia,
New Jersey... The list goes on. Never been to Florida though and I really
want to go there.

Yeah, Rac in May, 2005 we landed in Kauai. We had a day and a half off
there and then our first show on that island. After that it was jet island
hopping everyday after that. Kauai, Maui, Hawaii and Oahu. The hardest
part of being there was having to drive the perimeter of the islands to get
everywhere... No cut throughs.

As beautiful as it is there, I think I'd get island fever in a very short time if
I lived there especially if I stayed on just one island most of the time.
wonderful place to visit however.. A bit humid which wouldn't be a benefit
to the chronic asthma I have.

What was really cool is when it rained... The rain water was so warm and
felt so good, I walked around in shorts and a T-shirt and made no effort to
guard myself from the participation. Singing in the rain indeed.. It was great!

In fact the two women I worked with I gladly welcomed them in preparing
our meals before rehearsals...very practical.
D's highlighted quote
_____________________________________

Yes, I meant that I and band appreciated 'their' offer to prepare meals for us before practice. And yes, I'll admit the band was expected something of that nature from them wither the offering was from either gender....no cockiness about it here. Here in Hawaii, sitting together with food is a very culturally ingrained way of knowing each other. To reject that would simply be rude. That brings me to an article read way back in the mid-seventies about the band Weather Report. The rehearsals were at Joe Zawinul home and Omar Hakim was the selected candidate for that band at that time. He stated how nervous he was knowing the caliber of musicians he was about to perform with and felt one day before going live was just not enough time to learn all that material!

Feeling tensed of that one day of rehearsal, it surprised Omar that Joe would invite everyone outback of his house under a large outdoor umbrella. There may have been some classic photos of those moments in the Drummer's Magazine don't know if you've ever came across those...I did. Anyway Joe would invite the band to his backyard to have a social meal and coffee under that umbrella. Omar stated that Joe's philosophy was to first make his company feel relaxed and at home 'then' proceed with the music thing. Omar went on to say how much better he and the band jelled together that whole day and into the evening (dinner). And of course he got the gig! Thought that was interesting. And that is the same way here; a meal together before starting to rehearse. As long as the meals aren't too hefty otherwise we would be too sleepy to continue through the day

Finally, I would think that being a person that has travel the continent, you've probably meant different people groups that approach things differently from you own. I'm always aware of that being I live amongst varying people groups that are different from my three foot circumference-of-a-life. And so I get the bigger picture that could be an enlightenment for some.

Rac

Rac,

I hope you're not getting my question mixed up with Kenny's comments.
I was only curious as to which one you meant, you prepared the meals
or they did. Either way it makes no difference to me and I make no
judgement calls or references to being sexist at all.

Just wanna make sure there are no wires crossed.

D.

HI D, okay you're all good with me here.

My DVD of Whiplash just arrived from Amazon. I really liked it. Pretty intense.

Rac