Drumnetics Magnetic Pedal

Here's a vid of the pedals at the set. The mic on the ZOOM Q3 wanted to key in on the snare more than anything, and the left bass has a weaker volume, but you'll get the idea.

I'm still getting used to the pedals. I'm so used to dealing with expansion springs tugging back it is rather effortless to play these devices. I feel like I'm starting all over again, actually having a pedal do what my head thinks without a virtual expansion spring struggle of some kind, that its messing with my body and head. Never been able to do things so easily (for me) with the left foot, paradiddles and all.

I'm no 300bpm or chops meister, but I am really happy with these puppies.

One thing I am not happy with are these new heads, Evans 10 mil single play w/ring. As you can see I cut half the ring out. The head feels very lifeless to me for some reason. I thought I'd try them. I need to try more tension on the heads. Aside from that, guess I'll keep looking for something that plays better for me on these shallower kicks (11x22, 12x24 w/6x6 port tubes).

It really is a new experience and learning curve at the kit. Haven't played double bass in twenty years, either, which is also taking time to get back into. You get used to two beaters on one head and the bounce adaptions you have to make. Back to one beater on one head is a different feel.

Mike is also working on some new ideas which are totally exciting. I know what he is striving for in the action of the pedal and can't wait for the modifications. Something this good made better is mind-blowing, but I know what's coming. Until then I'll keep working on cleaning up what I can do with these in the current model.

Like the kids say, magnets RULE. (I know Dslam will say "diving boards rule" )

UPDATE, August 16, 2012

If you go to Mike's Drumnetics Facebook page you will see the newest model of the pedal, the Drumnetics 3XF.

Let me say this point blank. Using this pedal with the upper axle magnets in conjunction with the footboard and base plate magnets LITERALLY produces a pedal action that almost plays itself. I thought the pedal was great as is, but the new model makes everything so smooth and effortless I LITERALLY am able to play what my brain sends down to my feet to do. This pedal has created a standing challenge to every single pedal and manufacturer on the planet. Spring-based pedals can be good, can be great, as pedals go, but nothing I have placed my feet on in 5 decades can compare to the action found on the Drumnetics 3XF. Nothing. No thing. This is the velvet rocket to Mars.

Pearl, Tama, DW, Axis, Trick, Mapex, et al, tremble. If this device gets an open door and shot at the drumming public your units shall be sent, of simple necessity, back to the dark ages. I kid you not.

Magnet power. Springs cannot do it. Perhaps, like Tama with their rather pointless and useless spring under the footboard of the Speed Cobra (which is a nice feeling pedal), companies will now start placing multiple springs all over the place, to push, to pull ... good luck with that one. True, some players are so used to spring driven devices they will just stay with them, playing the strokes they always have. I want to play the strokes I have not, that my brain says Do, but my feet do not cooperate. No more. If I was 100% behind this product before, I am 1000% behind it now.

Like any small business it can be a rough go, especially in this current economy. Drumnetics is in that place right now. I hope with all sincerity and honesty Mike Van Dyk can pull things together so this tremendous device can be placed before drummers all over the world so they can feel magnet power for themselves. For me there can be NO turning back.

Just an update on something not covered. Last week I recorded with the new set and pedals. In all my years playing I have rarely, if ever, pushed my kicks forward as long as I had decent spurs and rug. Well, after playing for about half hour in the session the pedals felt funny. My playing started getting a little sloppy. Come to find out the kicks moved forward more than an inch. THAT is how much energy transfer I am enjoying using the same muscle force. It's unbelievable. The beater really smacks the head, and you don't even realize it because the action is so smooth.

Way to go, Mike.

I wish Billy tried these things out. I bet he would love them.

I've been trying to find these somewhere, Asaph.
I find that I'm turning even the store merchants on
to them as when I mention the pedals to them they
didn't even know they existed.... They'll go to their
computers and look them up right there in the store
and when they see them they make comments like:

"They must cost a million dollars."

I know nothing about them. I'm not very picky about my
pedals and I don't need to have a ton of bells and whistles.
Give me something that feels good, not a hassle to adjust
and is durable, be it direct drive, chain, strap, magnet,
expansion spring, compression spring, cam, hinge, no hinge,
longboard, shortboard, diving board, I really don't care, as long
as it does what I need it to do.

I currently use the Axis, Iron Cobra, and the Boa, and I dig
all three, though the Boa is the clear favorite. As earlier posted
I'm impressed with the new Ludwig Atlas pedal.... I'd really like
to give the Trick and this new Drumnetics pedal a go. And I will
as soon as I can find one.

Right now, D, Mike is pursuing a few different options from a business perspective. Stores have never carried the pedal. Mike has been at NAMM a few times since 2006, and always had great response, but retailers just never pulled the trigger. So, Mike just sold them online. Now he is ready to take it to the next level, but it will require investors or a company to take him on. Some business connections he had set up for the next run have stalled, so he's trying to pull together other avenues. The pedal has never sold for more than $300, I don't think. It came down to $259, and is what I got mine for. Or 249, I forget. For what it is, it is a very good buy. The Hi hat is great, too. The double pedal best I ever put my feet on.

BTW, in regards to the BOA. As I mentioned because I liked them so much I bought a second one. I've been using my old Yamaha 880 dble pedal at my practice pad set. I decided to make a couple kick pads for the BOAs. Now that I have been using the axle magnets on the Drumnetics the BOAs just cannot compare. They were close when it was just the footboard magnets, but I still preferred the Nucleus. The new 3XF design just hits it out of the park altogether and the BOA, while still smooth and all, does not have the same flow. It's a dynamic that truly has to be felt to be believed.

Everybody at summer NAMM, including Gene Okamoto, from Pearl, told Mike the new design feels so natural it is uncanny. A NAMM spokesperson told Mike his booth was creating as much or more buzz than any booth on the floor.

It isn't just the magnets below and on the axle now. The entire centered design and cam have to do with the mechanics and feel. Everyone feels the BAM when they throw it. The upper magnets just add to the movement where all that action is happening - right at the beater. And you use so little energy to accomplish it, that's how I moved my kick drums and didn't even realize it.

Like I've said through this whole thread there are great pedals out there with spring designs. The new Ludwig, because it is based on the same designs out there, should have a good feel to it. It looks nice in some cosmetic details, but I have a $100 generic double pedal I got off ebay for practice that has features top of the line pedals did not have decades ago. I have recorded with it in the last 6 months. But they all share the same basic designs and I believe the feel and actions have been maxed out with expansion spring mechanics. Compression, too. DW is working on something new. Pearl is working on something new. I would not be surprised if Tama is, too, and other companies. Well, if the 9000 and Demon Drive have already reached peak sales and they feel they need to come up with something new, you know springs have reached their limit. Solid links are back. DW is probably working on that themselves. I truly believe Mike is on to something that brings it all into the 21st century.

Right now it is business. Investors, or a company to take him on. I have written letters to companies asking them to contact Mike. Others who own the pedal are doing the same thing. It's just such a pleasure to play the drum and not the pedal, that owners want to get the message out. There's nothing in it for us. We just want Mike to succeed for the pedal's sake.

I'm not sure if he has decided to go to the Nashville drum show in September. NAMM is all about merchants mostly. Mike needs to get this puppy before drummers. That will push this gig over the top.

Until then, it's business, first and foremost.

I truly hope something breaks for him soon.

Probably the same thing with the Boa, Asaph. Bob Gatzen just can't
get the backing. I figure that maybe these drum companies don't like
being up-ended like that and they're asking for rights to these units
that's far beyond reason. These guys that put the blood, sweat and
tears into developing these units don't want to give all that up. And
frankly I don't blame these fellas. They're independents and they're
blowing away the pedal products that these major drum companies
are developing and I don't think the major guys like that.

Kinda like with Disney and Pixar. Pixar had to really fight to get the
recognition for coming up with These cgi animated classics... In the beginning,
people just took for granted that it was all Disney and not that they were
just the distributor.

I don't thinks these big guns like these upstarts coming in and blowing their
product away... So they make it difficult for them to get a foothold.

I hope I get a chance to check this magnet pedal out... You got me curious.

Pride, pride, pride. I have suggested that to Mike. I believe you are correct. BOA suffered because DW for whatever reason did not want to invest in it and take away from their own pedals. That is the way it certainly seems, but only the parties involved know the facts.

In Mike's case the R&D is done. He just needs investors or a company to take it on. One of the companies I wrote to is Gibraltar, also Gretsch, seeing they are partnered. Man, I would love to see Mike's 21st century pedal on Gretsch retro sets. Too cool. And Gibraltar, being just a hardware company, would not have to make any great changes to anything. They have some nice pedals. But the 3XF would throne them, I am sure. Right on top of the heap. It would also be an asset for Gretsch, too, I believe.

We'll see what happens. I want Mike to start a referral program, like Alternate Mode/KAT instruments has, where owners will show interested people what their devices are like up close and personal. Then the Drumnetics could be seen by people if an owner was in their area. I know there is a rental place in CA that carries the pedal. Not sure the name or where.

But, yes, Mike is in for a tough time in this economy and all. I'd love for Billy to check them out and show one to Yamaha. I was going to write to them but they are such an enormous company I didn't. Just seemed an email to them would get lost in the blink of an eye.

Man, would I love Ludwig to check this out. Talk about reinventing the Speed King for the 21st century. My mind went nuts thinking about the marketing for that gig. Ludwig makes just enough SKs to satisfy the vintage market players. If the SK was designed around the Drumnetics the SK would truly be King again. I have zero doubt about that. But, I cannot find an address for Ludwig anywhere. Seems they don't want consumer contact.

Some company is going to jump on this and take advantage of it and do great things. Or Mike will land some investors and do it himself. I am so sold on this unit if I had the money I would invest in a heartbeat.

You know, maybe contacting Yamaha isn't such a bad idea.
the reason being that as big as they are even in the drum
department alone, they don't really seem to put a lot of stock
in pedal development so in a sense they don't have anything
to protect or be bias toward. I'm thinking of companies like
ddrum that don't bother with these systems at all. You've
already mentioned Gretsch... I would think that such entities
could potentially benefit from such a partnership. I agree with
you that this is something Lugwig should consider. If this pedal
is really as good as you say then it can only help to re-establish
them back on the drum makers map.

I think that companies like DW, Pearl, Tama that specialize in pedal
design are going to protect their own interests first and it seemed
to have already been proven to be a waste of time in trying to deal
with them.

I could never quite understand why the Boa was put under the
PDP line until I found out that it was developed and created by
an independent owner. Yes, they did make an attempt at marketing
and distributing the unit, but it was from the basement and the thing
still blew away anything they (DW) had and came up with.

Like you said, Mike has a tough road ahead of him. When I found the
Boa it was purely by chance as it had already been off the market for
some time by then. I went to a Virgil Donati clinic at a little drum shop
in San Francisco and they just happened to have a brand new one that
had been sitting there for awhile. They sold it to me for $325.00.

I fear that the Drumnetics pedal is in danger of falling to a similar fate.
I really hope not. But If so, maybe I'll get lucky and find one sitting in
some remote corner in some mom and pop drum shop. A sad situation
in itself, but still better than never finding one at all.

Btw, your drums sound REALLY good!

You might be right about Yamaha. Maybe I will give it a go. I thought about DDrum. A also thought about Crush, being an up and coming company that caused some buzz at NAMM, but Mike told me he spoke with them and they weren't interested right now, as good as the pedal is in their view.

DW, Tama, Pearl ... my thoughts exactly.

You live near San Francisco? I'll ask Mike where that rental store is. Maybe it's around there close enough for you to go check it out. It isn't the new model with the axle magnets, but you'll get a good idea what the pedal is like. It's the one I have been addressing on this thread before the new one came out for summer NAMM.

People can certainly look at the BOA thread for details, but there is a major difference between the BOA and Drumnetics I feel should be pointed out. The similarity is obvious - no springs for propulsion. But after that there is a major difference in materials used, and workmanship of parts. The cracking foot board on the BOA is a huge deal. The beater rotor that I have which is drilled out crooked. The crazy clacking sound it took me awhile to find and relieve. I wonder if the BOA would still be on the market if those issues did not exist for it. Obviously DW did not want to invest addressing its issues. Which is a true shame because it is a true innovation. Bob Gatzen should be applauded for all his work on it.

Mike's pedals are rock solid, hi-grade aluminum throughout. Nothing can break. No noisy parts. In that sense they are not comparable with the BOA. Mike has come a long way in six years and has a product which rivals and surpasses anything out there. Won't be long before that comes to light in the down-home, guy on the street drumming community. I've never seen a poor review of the pedal in a magazine or on the web. It just hasn't had the exposure to drummers which it needs.

In four decades DW hasn't really changed anything in its designs, nor Pearl, or Tama. The Ghost tried "clock springs," but it had problems and was gone. Ludwig sat back and sold generic pedals for decades, aside from the Speed King, which started it all, as far as innovation. The new Atlas pedal looks very nice, and I'm sure plays nicely, but offers nothing new in design to improve how a drummer can play the drum and not the pedal. Yamaha, same thing. All the companies, save for Gibraltar and Gatzen, haven't really changed anything. The Catapult tried, though still spring driven, and the BOA had problems which were not overcome. I'd say Drumnetics has done real well to have what it has on the table. That is highly biased because I use them, but from a historical aspect, I believe it's accurate, too.

Asaph,

I am not here to defend the Boa or offend the Drumnetics.
All I can say is the problems that you and Pete have had
with the Boa, I have not have any of those. Please keep
on mind that I gig a minimum of twice a week, usually it's
3-4 days a week. I am putting this pedal on playing it for
3 one hour sets and then tearing it down that often and I
have yet to have ANY problems with it. I tend to wonder
between the three of us who got the most consistant unit,
you and Pete or was it I?

For me, It's a bit difficult to take Pete's reviews regarding this
to heart because he plays on synthetic drums and he's a very
solid player in that he hit's pretty hard.

As you know, those hard rubber pads don't give nearly as much
as an actual drumhead and consistantly playing on those things
I'm sure puts quite a bit more stress at impact point on the work-
ing parts of any pedal.

As for you, I don't know, maybe you're among those that got
one from a bad batch.... Or maybe I got lucky and bought one
that was a fluke good one... I don't know, man. I just know
that the Boa I have is awesome and I have no complaints with
it.

Cool that the Drumnetics pedal is working for you. I hope I get
to check it out one day.

As for new designs, I'm an "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy.
The new Ludwig pedal feels great to me, Smooth as silk and is as
quiet as my Boa... yet with a much simpler design. How well it holds
up over time is yet to be discoverd. As I said earlier, I don't need all
the bells and whistles. Just give me something that feels good and is
durable and I'm all good to go.

The one advantage the Ludwig pedal has over both the Boa and
Drumnetics pedals is, it's readily and easily available. Innovation
is great.... It don't mean a whole lot collecting dust on some shelf,
however.

I hope both Bob and Mike find a way to get their products marketed
in the capacity that they deserve.

D, I can't say I see the BOA as complicated. Three basic adjustments and beater angle. After all the adjusting I just went back to the way it came out of the box. Just curious if you have ever loosened, readjusted, and re-tightened the footboard? It is so thin and brittle it took nothing for me to crack mine in re-tightening. The Ludwig, same as all the other expansion spring designs out there. Just a couple major adjustments to make. The use of better bearings is what has given modern pedals their smoother feel. I'm sure the Atlas would hold up well under years of daily playing. I can't think of any pedals today that would not.

Being that you like simplicity of mechanics I know you would love the Drumnetics. The thing is, it's the magnets. People who put their foot on a Drumnetics just notice the difference between springs pulling back the beater, and magnets pushing it back, and now with the axle magnets the beater is also gently thrust forward, as well, so the pedal just naturally responds to exactly what your foot does. The centered position of the beater makes a difference, too. It's just a cool thing you have to experience to realize. The BOA and Drumnetics both have innovations which to me, have taken bass drum pedal design to new territory which can only aid drummers in accomplishing what they want to do behind the set. I don't know if you have watched my pedal test vid on youtube. I suppose they call them "shoot out" vids. I believe you would find it interesting. Here's the vid again if you or anyone else is interested:



It is terribly frustrating to Mike to have all the interest he has and no ongoing production run to get new pedals out there to meet growing demand. Anyone in business knows the headaches of dealing with parts manufacturers, quotes, time lines, quality control, etc., etc.

Based on your thoughts I sent an email to Yamaha. Not an easy thing to do, actually. I had to sign up before I could send a message to anyone. But maybe someone at Yamaha will think about contacting Mike. They could certainly get the pedal before the drumming world in short order. Dave Weckle makes a comment about the direct drive Yamaha akin to my own - he plays the drum, not the pedal. That is the whole thing of direct drive and what it gives the drummer. But I know if Weckle put his foot on a Drumnetics the aspect of playing the drum and not the pedal would expand in his thinking a great deal. It has for me, anyway.

So, we'll see what happens.

Very cool and educational pedal coparison video, Asaph.
Thanks for posting... I was actually quite impressed with
the Tama and the double pedal off to the far right. Visually,
the Trick looked a bit slow to me but that could just be an
adjustment factor. Visually again, it did seem that the Nucleus
had the best action.

I agree in that I never thought any of these pedals were complicated.
It's just that by comparison to the more standard adjusting one's I've
used, the ones like the Boa, Trick, And Axis have more to deal with.
Usually, all I do is adjust the spring tension and beater angle out of the
box and I'm ret-ta-go. I tried this method with the Axis and they felt
horrendous! The same thing with the Boa. I had to sit down and do
some work with these two to get them where I needed them to be.

They weren't complicated just more involved. And yes, I did re-adjust the
footboard tension on the Boas. They were too tight when I got them so I
pulled them out to loosen the tension. This was among several other
adjustments I needed to make. As far as these unit getting out there, Let's
keep our fingers crossed.
So you're selling some pedals, huh?.... How much for the Neucleus?!

Heck, no. Not my Nucleus.

But the Trick, Tama, and Pearl, yes.

Amazing how you had to fuss with the BOA to get it where you like it, and I just liked it right out of the box, best. Every body is so different. That was another thing about the BOA, the teeth on the angle adjustment. Just feels crude to me. I guess once you set it where you want to it's done, but if you mess around with the link adjustment the angle can change on you. Just a pain to deal with. Not well thought out.

The OFF-SET dble pedal on the right - very cool device in concept and good feel, too, and Charles Fisher is another really nice gentleman trying to make a go of it himself, though his pedals are made by WorldMax. They send them back to him and he sells them off his website. According to Mike, when Charles checked out Mike's pedal at a NAMM show Charles said, "I wish I thought of this."

I guess once you set it where you want to it's done, but if you mess around with the link adjustment the angle can change on you. Just a pain to deal with. Not well thought out.

That's exactly my philosophy. Set it, leave it! It was the same thing
for me with the Axis. I didn't see it as a pain but rather just something
that needed to be done. I appreciate all the adjustments these pedals
offer... But that being said, there's a bottom line and on that line is feel,
control and durability. And I've gotten that with other pedals that doesn't
have nearly as many adjustment.

Though I must inject that the thing to me that's unique and is a big plus
with me with the Boa, is the fact that you can instantly go from a double
pedal to two single pedals simply by taking off the linkage then moving one
of the beaters to the slave pedal which in reality isn't really a slave pedal at
all. No extra springs or tensioning washers to add, it's just ready to go.
And the independent adjustments allows you to get each pedal to feel evenly
be it the double or single setup.

I don't know if Drumnetics makes a double pedal but because of the magnets
and no springs, they'd have the same advantage. They may be lacking in the
adjustment department though being how a linkage would be added to drive
one of the beaters. But I'm sure Mike has enough to worry about already
without any of that.

For me the Boa has been a total positive experience and is the best pedal
I've used to date, ever! Keep in mind however that I said the same thing
about the Axis a number of years ago. Should I be fortunate enough to get
my hands on a Nucleus, I'll probably say it again assuming it's everything you
say it is... And then some time later something else will come along. It just
goes on and on, doesn't it?

"It just goes on and on, doesn't it?"

Ain't that the truth. Mike, himself, always has ideas for refinement and better operation. We have spent hours talking about this stuff. I have shared some ideas with him based on bio-mimicry.

BTW, you might be interested to know that Yamaha called me today. That was was very quick, and very nice of them. Because of policy restrictions they can only discuss things with patent holders, which is fine. I just contacted them to "Light a fire," the guy said. And I said Yes, exactly. Mike is the guy you need to talk to.

So, there ya go. I would have not written to them were it not for your encouragement, Don. Thanks. We'll see what happens next. SOME company IS going to jump on this. Just a matter of time. They will not be sorry.

I think that was very big of Yamaha.... Let's see what happens.

Hi, guys. It has been too long and
a lot has been happening around
here and too much for this little
post, right now but I am healthy
again and I have something to tell
you about the Drumnetics pedals
and Mike.

I have his latest prototype and
this thing is unbelievable. Now,
there are added magnets in
strategic places basically placing
the beater in between a magnetic
field. That's right. It's pushing
towards the head and away from
it giving you an even more cushiony
feeling and helping to bring the
beater back.

I need his permission to write
more about this and do the
whole review but I can say that
I think this thing is hot-hot.

And it is good to see you guys.



Regards,

Greetings, Pete. Great to see you. Looking forward to your review.

Just to clarify, what you and I have are modifications, not based on a prototype, but the latest version of the pedal already produced, which Mike is working on the next production run, the 3XF. He's ready to go, just working on some manufacturing options at present.

The pedal looks just about the same, some small changes, but the footboard is really cool looking. Best yet.

Asaph,

Thanks. That is more accurate.
These are modifications that I
(we) speak of.

Do you have the one, with
the magnets by the beater?

This is definitely the best version
of the concept, in my opinion.

I am using it with the telescoping
Trick Detonator Beater, which
takes care of the beater angle
at impact and the potential hoop
displacement and distancing.

I won't do the review until he
gives me the go-ahead and when
he is through this next stage of
circumstances related to the
manufacturing.

Good to see you.

Regards,

Yes, as mentioned previously, magnets on the axle, as well as below.

The new 3XF version places the posts and the footboard in slightly different positions than the Nucleus. I believe you liked your posts back. I like mine forward. The 3XF has a place in between. Some slight changes in the cam set-up, too. New sliding felt beaters, which are really cool, and I use those on my double pedal pedal at the edrum set-up. The double pedal will need some modifications for axle magnets on the primary. They can be placed easily enough on the slave.

I couldn't get used to the feel of the pedal with the longer baseplate, so I went back to the regular one, and kept the posts forward. That just feels best to me. But side by side the 3XF does feel a little smoother than what we came up with for retro-fit on my Nucleus.' It's just a fantastic feel. Like I say, Velvet Rocket to Mars. The pedal, literally, almost plays itself. With just the lower magnets, as beautiful as it is, there was this feeling of slight hold back on each throw, something akin to pulling a lawnmower rope and catching for the clutch. It has to do with the slight bounce off the cam pad working in the whole magnetic field created, apparently. With the axle magnets aiding in both forward and backward motion that tiny hold back feel is totally removed. It's truly a simple and astounding feature in what it adds to the feel of the pedal.

I am so desirous drummers can get their feet on this gig. People at NAMM flipped out. Mike was planning a booth at Nashville, but something else came up. Hopefully he can get together all the manufacturing issues soon.

I am so glad to hear your
response to it, Asaph.

The floorboard change was
critical for me. It also gives
the pedal a shifting ability
that might speak to another
set of players (market).

The more recent link gives
it a strength it did not have
and at a length, which I
think is optimum.

The magnets on the axle
help bring/spring that
beater back perfectly. I
was intrigued by the idea
and when I got it in my
hands, I rejoiced.

I like it, as much as you
and am interested to hear
about what is up and
coming for Mike.

Regards,

Okay, so If I wanted to get one, how
would I go about it at this time, who's
my contact?

Hey, Don. Miss you, bud.



Right now, he is looking into
manufacturing alternatives, like
Asaph said and things have gone
on hold during this time. When he
gets back, we'll know and we'll
let you know.

Regards,