Red Clay 40th Anniversary remaster

Seems there's some debate about whether or not this 1971 bonus track is Billy. This is part 1 of 2, 18 minutes total.

Where is this debated keith ? Lenny White is listed as the drummer on that album and if you listen to the playing on part 1 and 2 , it's definitely not Billy. The fills are not what he did during that time frame, which was 1970.

At least that's how it sounds to me. And I do not have it listed in my discography . Billy plays on a number of Freddie Hubbard CTI records like Sky Dive , The Baddest Hubbard, and Polar AC but not Red Clay.

Of course it's possible I'm wrong, so maybe Boomer can give a listen and tell us for sure .




Peace, TED

he dropped the beat several times as well! some
performances should stay just that!

Ted, this is a bonus track on the 2002 and 2010 cd releases of Red Clay and it's a 1971 performance. Billy Cobham is credited as drummer, but it doesn't sound like Billy; more like Lenny who played on the 1970 record. It sounds like a very relaxed Billy maybe. It's on wiki and everywhere on the net as Cobham, track 6:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Clay

thanks Keith. I agree that this doesn't sound like Billy. It's interesting to note that the date of the gig that's listed is 7/19/1971 which is exactly two days before Billy played his first gig with the Mahavishnu Orchestra in New York at the Gaslight. So it is possible that he was available for that gig.

I would feel better if Boomer listens to it and tells us yes or no on whether it's him or not. If he says yes, then I will have to buy it ! LOL


Peace, TED

I did not play on the Red Clay sessions, to my knowledge.............Boomer

thanks Boomer !


peace, TED

Boomer - It would be fascinating to hear you talk about your experiences with CTI/Van Gelder recording such great albums with G. Benson, M. Jackson, S. Turrentine and (yes) Deodato, e.g., how did you/they produce that fabulous sound of yours on those cuts, what kind of set & set up did you use, etc. I learned so much from those albums. pLee

A typical recording day started about 10:00 in the morning. there was a 1 hour break for lunch then we would get back into recording around 1:00 in the afternoon for another 3 hour session. It was a very tight schedule as the bottom line was the cost of the studio, per hour. I am not really sure what that figure was but would venture to say maybe, $100.00 per hour (?). Probably much more than that I guess. It was important to get to the studio at least a half an hour before the session began and, if it was only a half hour then you were already rushing with your preparations so that you could play the first note by 10:00. By the way, you did not get paid for the early arrival just the cartage and taxi fare to get from New York City to Northern New Jersey. Trust me when I say that it was worth the extra effort play with the likes of J.J. Johnson, Roland Hannah, Freddy Hubbard, Keith Jarrett, Ron Carter, Joe Henderson, Don Sebesky, Eumir Deodato, Stanley Turrentine, Milt Jackson, Herbie Hancock, George Benson, Jackie & Roy, Kenny Burrell, Airto Moriera and Esther Phillips just to name a few. What made the projects work was comraderie, musicianship and a willingness to work towards a common goal: make the best of the musical situation at that moment. Everybody from the producer, Creed Taylor to the engineer - Rudy Van Gelder to all of the musicians taking part had to be partners in order to achieve what has been documented in the grooves of those recordings. The drums that I performed on were customized for me so that I could personally transport them from location to location without too much physical stress since I was moving around on public transportation more often than not. I used an 18" x 12" bass drum, 12" x 9" rack tom, 14" x 14" floor tom and a 5.5" x 14" snare drum. 3 drums, one trap case with snare, cymbals and hardware.
Lessons: Be on time, Be prepared to play, Be Observant, Be committed to the ideas you contribute.
Boomer

Thanks so much Boomer for being so kind as to give us an insight into what those days at CTI/Van Gelder were all about. You are truly the greatest.

Indeed!!!! Thank you for the insight, Billy.
And thank you for posing those great questions, pLee.

Billy, have you listened to the track in question? It was recorded live at least a year after the Red Clay studio sessions and by a completely different band. I think it's a really enjoyable 18 minute listen!

I also want to add my thanks for the CTI insight. I have every one of those recordings too, mostly on albums and I always appreciated the extra effort that Creed Tayor and his company put into the jackets on the recordings . Most were gatefold covers and always featured great photos and detailed information on who played what , and on what tracks. Nowadays, they can't even get the song titles right.

Or even the artists correct photo on the cover [ like Lenny's photo on your CD]. Too much idiocy !


peace, TED