Royster

Do you think TR could pull a gig like this off?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbN_S3B7oAw

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtDjQaZuqSg

D. Slam wrote:
https://bcwtj.forumotion.com/t615-normally-not-into-this-but

That dude is awesome.

Hi rare,

I would never venture to say what Tony or anyone else could
or could not do. My points were never about that. It's quite
possible that Tony could hang with no problem. But remember
that there are two main ingredients here:

One is simply having the technical capability just to get through the
given tunes and then it's having the knowledge and understanding
to artistically express the music in such a way that brings out the
the possible best it has to offer.

And that's the difference, and why you find 8, 10 and 12 year old's
blowing chops like crazy, yet without having a genuine ability to
make music with other players on a musical, mental and emotional
level. That's what takes the time and is generally learned through
the school of music of hard knocks 101. All the chops in the world
won't get you there.

Eric Moore, a kid who won the Guitar Center Drum off about 4 or 5 years
ago made a comment that I thought was a bit odd. After winning the whole
deal, he said in an interview: "Now people know that I can play." I read
that and said to myself, "No, now people know that you won a drumming
contest."

Am I saying that T.R. falls into any of these categories?... NO! I
haven't heard enough of him to make a call on his ability either way.
And a couple of youtube clips of him 'unleashing' certainly isn't going
to tell me where he stands as a well rounded player.

As to the metal player, his technical execution is flawless. What this kid
does with his feet and hands and the cleanliness with which he does it
just floors me. The music is not really my cup of tea but they did it well
and I have no choice but to appreciate that aspect of it.

To Don,

I had to check out this "extrordinary" funk band myself.
http://www.thejointchiefsband.com/cd.htm
Actually smoke signals is quite nice although i thought your new album sounded sterile. i think you're snare drum sounds great i like the tuning. Sure i've played surf music and I like to learn from traditional 'ethnic' music when the opportunity presents itself. I get to play for different dance communities around the northwest it makes me happy to feel like i can contribute to someone's enjoyment. if i feel like it is fun and can learn something from an opportunity i might go for it.I challenge you to tell me what is Eric Moore doing here at :50 in for about 15 seconds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bX6AKULAv4&feature=related just want to see if you have any basic understanding of music besides variations on mustang sally. if you think this video doesn't prove he can play like you stated I just think you might benefit to get off your high horse occasionally.

comparing musicians is idiotic.

To everyone else, admit it you have played in the midnight hour and mustang sally on every gig you've done for the past 35 years. for anyone of you to sit there and say you ain't feelin it from the original tony Royster video posted on top of this thread tells me one thing. You're deaf in one ear and can't hear out the other. That is highly musical to my ear he comps behind other soloists a bit and makes absolutely gorgeous music behind that drumset. fast and full of chops or not, that is music. I'll defend that cideo any chance i get. Go ahead go back and check it out.

Smoke signals is before my time with the Joint Chiefs, Kenny. I am not on that CD.
That was done about 10 years ago. I joined the band in mid 2006.

I agree with your assessment of the new CD... It's quite sterile.

As to the other subjects, I don't recall ever stating that Eric or Tony couldn't play, but here
we go again... I'm not going to engage except to say that I enjoyed Eric's performance in that clip.
We've both had our say, time to move onward and upward.

And thanks for checking out the band.

Well, that's the first time I have ever seen Eric Moore play , and all I can say is the guy plays great. Really smooth, quick hands , especially for a big man. Is he one of the gospel chops guys you were talking about ? Cause I'd sure love to have me some of those !

thanks for putting that up Kenny. I am impressed with his playing.


Peace, TED

Sounds like he's playing in 7/4 at around 50 seconds into the video.

Unfortunately for him, Eric, he probably won't be drumming for too long unless he loses some weight. To be that morbidly obese is a stress on his heart and his demise will be stroking out on the set in the middle of a solo someday.

There are all types of music for the working drummer to play. To diss someone for playing a particualr type of music, for example top 40, Mustang Sally, Midnight Hour, whatever... is just plain wrong.
Where I live, in central NH, if I chose not to play "club" music then there wouldn't be much left to play regarding live music. This is what the people want to hear when they go out to a bar to drink, dance and be merry.
As of late I've been playing with the Tony Sarno blues band. Guitar, bass, drums and harmonia. Not your typical top 40 band but there are some tunes that are standard repertoire for people to dance to.
The point is... I'm playing drums and enjoying with whom I play with. I think it sounds good, people enjoy it and applaud after every song and even dance on occasion.
Isn't that what it's all about???
I'm playing my drums, be it top 40, funk, jazz, R&B, big band, drum corps, marching band, concert band, pit orchestra, ragtime, or whatever style of music there are drums on.
As long as I enjoy doing it and other people benefit from the experience and come up to me afterwards and say that they really enjoyed listening to it makes it all worthwhile, to me.
Regardless of what style of drumming it is.

Haha Kenny,
I've NEVER played Mustang Sally...EVER in my life. I don't play cover songs.
And that clip of the other gospel type you posted was ok...he's got chops...so?

I've played on many many records that are currently circulating the world, Kenny. FRom Metal, to Jazz, Folk, Rock, Acoustic singer songwriter, and so on and so on. I collaborate and write my own drum parts that FIT the music and feel of the artists I work with....Just so you know, and don't make that statement about ''Everybody'' does this or that....
Just speak for yourself and everything will be respected.

I respect your opinion although i might not agree at times..that's ok. I enjoy watching the clips everyone posts..

D.L.

FYI,

Eric is a local player right here from Stockton Ca., about an hour and a half drive from where I live.
I was a judge at the when he won the Drum Off division at the local San Jose Guitar Center. Eric's
got the stuff for sure... But that's what it takes in these competition situations.... As to how he
actually works with a band, I couldn't say.... Last I heard he was playing for "Bad boy" Bobby Brown.

As for cover tunes, originals, Mustang Sally....... I can appreciate it all when it's done well. Personally,
I loathe playing the tune, not because it's not a good song but because it's been played out of my
liking by nearly every cover band on earth.... I'm sick of it! But you know what, people like it, and when
someone comes up and drops a fifty in the tip jar and requests that song, I'm gonna play it my best with
a big ol' smile on my face!

Oh, and btw, Look who else has played Mustang Sally!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxTIzrRQxc

Geez..... I could swear that looks like Billy Cobham playing "Mustang Sally".

Yeah I forgot to mention,
There's nothing wrong with playing covers, if you do them well, and enjoy it, and make money in the process.

\
Yeah that's Boomer in the vid all right. hahahahahaha


tip Jar ?? 50 bucks ??? for a tip ??? That must be california prices. When I was a DJ I had a tip jar, but never with a band. And many times we're lucky to get $50 for the evening, let alone a tip. You're very fortunate , Don. No wonder you can buy all those drums you got ! LOL

Dave, I find it hard to believe you never ever played Mustang Sally in your life. Not doubting you if you say so, just find it hard to believe. did you grow up in Philly ? IF so, I find it even harder to believe. Unless of course, you never played in anything but originals bands your whole career.

There were a lot of musicians that had the attitude that I'm not going to play covers because that's for losers and the only way to make it is playing originals. There's a lot of truth to that, but it also led those musicians to believe that they were better players than the guys who played covers. Hope you were never one of those guys. while I respect the guys who "went for it" and did the originals route, I would have to say that it's VERY difficult to be a successful cover band. Why ? Because the audience has the original "hit" already ingrained into their heads and you either have to sound pretty close to that OR do a totally amazing new arrangement of whatever song you're doing in order to pull it off. In an original song you could make a mistake and nobody would even know its a mistake . Do that to a famous cover and see how that works.

Just stickin up for the cover guys here, that's all. I mostly fall into that category. LOL



Peace, TED

Ted,
I respect anyone who can pick up a pair of drumsticks and play- Really.. I have played covers in my lifetime, and learned a hell of a lot in the process.

I preffer to play Original music because for me, I get more satisfaction out of it. I definitely don't knock anyone for playing covers- it takes a great skill to do it well.

I consider myself a Musician that plays drums..Meaning that I also write melody and lyrics for the bands I'm in.
I can't really do that if I'm covering a song that's been written already.

Believe it or not..I never played mustang sally....wish I wrote it though! hahaha!!

I apologize if my post came off like I think I'm better than anyone else...not intended.

D.L.

P.S. Just so you guys know, I personally met and saw Don play a couple of years ago, and let me tell you he's a definite PRO at what he does. His band put on a show, that never stopped the whole set, and his dynamics in accordance with the singer as she worked the crowd was really something.

I hate doing covers, especially the one's that I've been doing.
Honestly, if you really want to establish yourself as an artist
that people will take seriously then you have to do original
material. I salute you, D.L. If you can continue doing what you
do without churning out cover tunes as a mainstay, DO THAT!

Ted, I'd really like to get the Destiny Power Trio together again.
For a minute, I thought that was going to happen but it didn't.
Too many demons in one of the player's life and he's just not
ready to release them. He's one of those guys when you talk
to him, everything is wrong in his world and it stifles him from
even moving toward any positive direction. Such a shame too.
He's a phenomenal player.

I have some things in the fire. We're looking to do more musically
challenging material and originals. I have some things on CD. but
I'm waiting for the right time to release it publicly... But I'm sick of
doing covers.... Very much so! To old for them, really. Well past
the time to get off the milk and start eating meat.

Did a gig a couple of months ago and made $190.00 in tips alone.
Yep, covers do have their perks.

P.S.

Thanks for the complimentary shout out, D.L.

D. Slam wrote:Hi rare,

I would never venture to say what Tony or anyone else could
or could not do. My points were never about that. It's quite
possible that Tony could hang with no problem. But remember
that there are two main ingredients here:

One is simply having the technical capability just to get through the
given tunes and then it's having the knowledge and understanding
to artistically express the music in such a way that brings out the
the possible best it has to offer.

And that's the difference, and why you find 8, 10 and 12 year old's
blowing chops like crazy, yet without having a genuine ability to
make music with other players on a musical, mental and emotional
level. That's what takes the time and is generally learned through
the school of music of hard knocks 101. All the chops in the world
won't get you there.

Eric Moore, a kid who won the Guitar Center Drum off about 4 or 5 years
ago made a comment that I thought was a bit odd. After winning the whole
deal, he said in an interview: "Now people know that I can play." I read
that and said to myself, "No, now people know that you won a drumming
contest."

Am I saying that T.R. falls into any of these categories?... NO! I
haven't heard enough of him to make a call on his ability either way.
And a couple of youtube clips of him 'unleashing' certainly isn't going
to tell me where he stands as a well rounded player.

As to the metal player, his technical execution is flawless. What this kid
does with his feet and hands and the cleanliness with which he does it
just floors me. The music is not really my cup of tea but they did it well
and I have no choice but to appreciate that aspect of it.

I agree with you, but in addition- Until I hear that instantly identifiable trademark sound that all the drummers I consider to be great have, I can't put TR in the same category. I don't consider him "one of the greats" in my book just yet, but he's dang close! I'll keep looking and maybe one day that day will come where I rank him along with BC, DC, BR, Gadd, Donati, RINGO...

I love death metal players because of the stamina. Some of these guys (like this guy in the vid) are just phenomenal. I found to get any speed at all on the double bass I've had to practice alot and pretty much every day. If I stop practicing for even a week or two I lose it. BTW- I had those Axis pedals he uses. Someone stole them out of the back of my truck.

kenny wrote:You're deaf in one ear and can't hear out the other.

Well, I'm almost there but not quite yet.

Hey Dave, No need for any apologies because I have never thought you to be one of "those guys" who look down their noses at cover players.

I have tons of respect for your playing of which I've heard everything from country to contemporary to hard rock from things you've posted over the years, so I know you can do it all ! And the fact that you're able to get gigs in this day and age doing anything original is an achievement in itself. Sad to say that, but it is. You know what I'm talking about - the number of places to play just keeps shrinking and shrinking. And a lot of what's left are the "pay to play" rooms where you can play anything you want, as long as you guarantee the club owner you'll put 50 to 100 butts on the bar stools.

So I'm happy to be playing anywhere at all right now, infrequent though it is. I couldn't imagine trying to make a living doing it like some of you guys. More power to ya.

And Don , you know I really liked the Destiny video you shared with me. Did you ever put up any clips of that for the rest of the members here to check out , because you should - mullet and all ! I can't remember if you did or not. I'm sorry to hear that a reunion looks unlikely as well.


And as for tips - I've gotten them a few times at weddings but that's about it.


Peace, TED

I don't consider him "one of the greats" in my book just yet, but he's dang close! I'll keep looking and maybe one day that day will come where I rank him along with BC, DC, BR, Gadd, Donati, RINGO...

rare,

the way I see it, a large part of being "great" is playing among and with other greats.
players like Chick, Herbie, John M., George D. etc. Playing with folks of this Caliber is a major
part of being stamped with that "great" status. Even Virgil hasn't done this and it's likely the
reason he's still considered somewhat of an underground artist, even as good as he is.

Of course this has no bearing on what a player can actually do, but doing it with artists like
these seals the deal in stone for sure...... Kind of a right of passage.

Ted,

Location, location, location...

Though it is always slow about this time of year, I do pretty well out here. That pay to play
deal that you spoke of, I've never even heard of that, so I don't know what's going on out
your way. Understand too, that I stay very busy and I know that D. L. can relate to this...
I have to if I want to get any kind of monetary value out of this... I'm already booked up for
spring and summer and that's how you have to do it if you really want to make this deal work
for you.

If you approach it with a part time attitude then you'll get part time rewards. It's the nature of
the business... Am I right D. L.?

Nothing wrong with playing part time by any means. But like anything else, if you want more then
you have to do more! And this is my attitude concerning covers. I need to go further than where
I am. originals are an absolute must!

I've never posted any video clips of Destiny, Ted. I don't have anything on the computer and I really
don't know the proper way to handle that. You're welcome to put something up if you have the know
how, time and desire. But if you do, is there any way you can edit out my mullet?

In all the music I've done, that band back in 87-91 was the most creative group I've ever worked with.
It was definitely the most creative time in my career... I've grown to settle, can't do that anymore.

Time to get wit-it!

Don , you are indeed lucky. I can name two fairly famous clubs in Greenwich Village that use the pay to play concept , The Bitter End and Kenny's Castaways . I think Dave has played at one of these. Maybe not.

There are a couple variations on pay to play. One way is that if there is a cover charge, you agree to play for the door, which usually means you need someone to supervise or collect the cash as it comes in. As I said before you have to be able to convince the club owner that you can draw whatever HIS number is 50 , 75 or 100 people whatever, so he can make the bar and food sales. Another variation is that you again convince him you can meet his number and then agree to a set fee , let's say $500. If you make the #, you get the full pay. IF you don't your pay is deducted according to what he feels is a fair number. So you better have someone counting heads at the door as they come in.

the third variation , which is the worst one, is that you again convince him you can make his number. You play for nothing and the owner keeps the cover and food charges. What YOU get out of it is the chance to play his room and use it as your showcase. A lot of new bands use this angle when they are trying to break a new CD or get a record deal, and they have no money to rent a place for a showcase. It's like if you and the Joint Chiefs were releasing your own original CD and you had the opportunity to play at Yoshi's . Would you do it for nothing ?

I defnitely have the knowledge to be able to put up something by Destiny if you want me to. Just tell me what tune you would prefer from the video and approximately where it is on the tape since I don't remember if you announced the song titles for everything. As for editng out the mullet, I don't have an eraser that big !!!!

Let me know and I'll see what I can do.


Peace, TED

wow ted you're showing your age again. They haven't called it the bitter end for over 30 years! Or did they change it back?

Interesting, Teddy B.

Now I am familiar with being paid by, or as it's called getting the door.
Also, Now that you mention it, when I was working with Destiny we
would play at a venue called the Caberet. All the big names would play
there, Billy, Buddy, Allen Holdsworth, Yellow Jackets, The Dixie Dreggs,
Jeff Lorber, Steve Smith, Chic Corea Electric Band, and so on... Anyway,
the opening acts such as us would have to sell our own tickets and we
got a percentage of that. it wasn't too bad but it got old pretty quickly.

So if you didn't sell any tickets, you played for free. So each ticket sold
was kinda like a guarantee I guess.

Never had to verbally guarantee the door however. Yes I'd actually do that at
Yoshi's just because of the venue's rep., and because I wouldn't have to
worry about any sound system. They have a killer one... This was also
the case at the Caberet. Just bring my drums, set up and play.

Put up whatever you like, Ted. Anything except that rock version of "Superstitious."
(last tune) My voice was terrible.

"I don't have an eraser that big." Ha,ha... It is to laugh. Very funny!

Kenny, it's always been Paul Colby's Bitter End as best I remember. and It's still there. Here's the website:


http://www.bitterend.com/



and Don, I will get to it by tomorrow.

Peace, TED

At your leisure, Ted.... Thanks.

rare,

Here's a young player I really like. What I like about him most is
his ability to not only play, and play with an amazing arsenal of chops
but also the way he plays along WITH what's going on around him.

His name is Greg Clark and that's a Carolina Drum works snare
he's playing on, from the same company that built mine.

I wish the audio was more professionally done, but it is what it is.

Left handed player too... Greg is serious!

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/gregclarkdrumclinic1.html

And check out how he lays it down with Raheem DeVaughn.

Not trying to start an earthquake, just puttin where it needs to be
with class and style.

THIS kid can play!

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/gregclarkraheemdevaughn.html

Yeah Don,
You're right about being in all the way..you have to.

Ted- yeah I've played The Bitter End many times. A real nice sounding room for drums.