The role of the drums.

Hey all,

How do you preceive the role of the drumset in a group situation? I myself have always seen the bass as the foundation in any band. The drum set to me has always been the solidifier, the glue if you will or the nuts and bolts that tie the foundation and what sits on it together.

What's your view?

Slam.

Hi Don,

It's funny you bring this topic up because I was just listening to the Tribute to Jack Johnson record by Miles Davis yesterday, and on track 2 ''yesternow''
Michael Henderson (bass player) Starts a groove and I was tapping my foot along to it, and it was really loose and out of time- then when Billy came into the song and started adding some sounds-even though it was more abstract, it really dig ''glue'' the track together- immediately you can hear the time shape right up.

So I agree with you that it is a glue to an extent. I also think that the role of the drums is different for different styles too. Me personally, I've always locked in with the guitar more so than the bass-probably because I have more there to bounce off of- but to each his own when it comes to creation.

D.L.

Yes, David. On many occaisions I have foud myself locking with the guitarist rather than the bass. I must admit though that, that usually happens when I don't seem to be getting what I need from the bass player, which is more technical or ability problem I would think.

I personally always look to get my main feed from the bass player, but if it's not there for whatever reason, I have to look elsewhere. And usually the guitarist is next in line, being that particular instrument's chordal structure doesn't float around as much as say a keyboard. Also it's a bit more challenging to try to lock onto a solo instrument like a saxophone.

My 2 cents.

Thanks for replying, D.L. I was wondering when someone would.

Don.

At times, as in the case last Saturday night, the band and I had to do minus the bass player who stepped out on the last set. So I played my bass drum almost as if I was a-kind-of replaced bass player if you will. Thank God I held it together enough to where the band could play consederately comfortable. And Yeah.....considering this graven situation, a drummer is as or as vital as a bass player or pianist where the basic foundational thrust of the music has to be maintained......

To answer your question has to based on this experience....The drummer is most important second to the bass and piano. Everyone else floats or dive depending on a solid rythem section (drums, bass and piano).

Oh by the way...I was the only one to have confronted the bass player regarding a due reason why he left or had to leave....

D. Slam wrote:Hey all,
How do you preceive the role of the drumset in a group situation? I myself have always seen the bass as the foundation in any band. The drum set to me has always been the solidifier, the glue if you will or the nuts and bolts that tie the foundation and what sits on it together.
What's your view?
Slam.

Kindly excuse me Neph, but your question seems a bit elusive.

I've only been to see it this morning, so forgive me if I overstep what you intended to ask.

What you asked is "fait accompli" (already done and accomplished).

Like you, I already know where the drums fit into any tune. I've yet to hear you play a ballad though beyond the blues. In fact there are some tunes (compositions/arrangements) where there should be NO PERCUSSION from a drummer... only colors if 'called' for.

But then with your chops, you already know this. Just wanted to put my two cents in.

As to the bass foundation? Well, unless drummers alone are meant to be a one man show, there is no need for any other instrument! And how ridiculous is that?

I was writing in general terms, Unc. Something I felt most would get without me having to actually state it... I think D. L. and Rac got it as their answers were right on topic with my question. I suppose I left the door open somewhat... But I figured it was open enough for others to walk through without having to open it any further.

But then again, we're not all the same size, are we?

Neph.

P.S.

I've yet to hear you play a ballad though beyond the blues.

That's not true, Unc. "Did I forget to say" (by EC) just happens to be done by a blues artist, but it is NOT a blues tune, nor is it performed in a blues fashion. Listen to the MUSIC without being manipulated by the genre... Not everything EC does is blues.

BUT REGARDLESS!

There's a Whole Lotta stuff you've yet to hear me play, Uncle. I've actually never heard you play the blues, or funk... But I know enough from what I have heard you play to realize that neither would be a problem at tall for you to do. So, no big deal, right?! If we are going to judge, then we should do so only on that, which has been given. You have heard from me exactly what I've wanted you to hear thus far... Anything outside of that has no bearing whatsoever... What can I say?

Keep listening.

Neph.

'Foundation'? 'Glue'? I like those.

I think of them as the necessary
framework, as in building a home.

I also like think of myself as a waiter.
"Would you like some muffins, with
that, or perhaps some espresso?"

I also like think of myself as a waiter.
"Would you like some muffins, with
that, or perhaps some espresso?"

Hahaha... Pete, it gets really interesting
when you don't have time to ask.

Well, that is true, Don. There ARE
those times. I was talking to Suss
about once, when he was working
with Eric Gale and a musical director,
who had different opinions on what
the tempo should be.

Sometimes, we have to wing it and
that is tough. K.I.S.S. is the rule,
then, for me.

KISS=Keep It Simple, Stupid.

I actually hear both of you guys, as well as perspectives on any subject when musical contexts are involved.

I think its pretty apparent what happens when we try to communicate using the spoken language, instead of the performed idioms.

Saw a great movie yesterday; about the so-called suicide of George Reeves (you know, the guy who played the original Superman series as "Superman." From what the screenwriter and director(s) sought to bring forward was that none of us know the real deal unless we're there witnessing it for ourselves. What I got from the plot (and scripting) was that George Reeves (the actor) was so despondent over being type casted by the so-called 'know it alls,' that he might have very well committed suicide, rather than being murdered.

What amazes me as well, is that it takes so long for consuming mindsets to "get it;" i.e. so many seem to be caught up in their own thing these daze, that we fail as a society to recognize what went wrong before us with a view toward correcting it and ourselves. After all, none of us can do a damn thing on our own these daze unless we are successful in working with (or influencing) other people. Now that is the trick... or should I say it has always been a principle.

Don... got your email as well as reading you comments here man. I wasn't judging you... in fact I was applauding you. Like you (me), I don't have to "HEAR" you play a ballad to know that you already know how to do it. In fact, I said that within this very thread. Sorry it got lost in the translation. No offense (or judgment intended). Further, what I meant about you being elusive was right on the money: I was being facetious with you fella. I would have thought you'd recognize the sarcasm in that I've heard you already know the "role" of a drummer, unlike some who bash regardless of the sensitivity which the music calls for. I'm really sorry you got the wrong idea... and accept my apology for any confusion.

Pete... absolutely. We spoke about this on the phone last week. You brought up your scenarious where even when face to face in a room with competing mindsets, two or more people whom you respect can be at odds among themselves. Just like you remembered with me, it was Eric Gale and Paul Allen when on an Ashford & Simpson I had to balance the expectations of both... and heck, I'm the contracted drummer for the date!

... hmmm... forgive me; I seem to remember that such is life in general also!

[left]So, what happens when the glue doesn't take hold, Don? Or, which thumb do you use to plug the dike? Boomer

Well when the glue doesn't hold, then the thing falls apart, be that a building, or a piece of music. then you have to find a stronger glue ! Peace, TED

boomer wrote:[left]So, what happens when the glue doesn't take hold, Don? Or, which thumb do you use to plug the dike? Boomer

Billy, then you find someone else to operate the glue gun.

Suss wrote:I actually hear both of you guys, as well as perspectives on any subject when musical contexts are involved.

I think its pretty apparent what happens when we try to communicate using the spoken language, instead of the performed idioms.

Saw a great movie yesterday; about the so-called suicide of George Reeves (you know, the guy who played the original Superman series as "Superman." From what the screenwriter and director(s) sought to bring forward was that none of us know the real deal unless we're there witnessing it for ourselves. What I got from the plot (and scripting) was that George Reeves (the actor) was so despondent over being type casted by the so-called 'know it alls,' that he might have very well committed suicide, rather than being murdered.

What amazes me as well, is that it takes so long for consuming mindsets to "get it;" i.e. so many seem to be caught up in their own thing these daze, that we fail as a society to recognize what went wrong before us with a view toward correcting it and ourselves. After all, none of us can do a damn thing on our own these daze unless we are successful in working with (or influencing) other people. Now that is the trick... or should I say it has always been a principle.

Don... got your email as well as reading you comments here man. I wasn't judging you... in fact I was applauding you. Like you (me), I don't have to "HEAR" you play a ballad to know that you already know how to do it. In fact, I said that within this very thread. Sorry it got lost in the translation. No offense (or judgment intended). Further, what I meant about you being elusive was right on the money: I was being facetious with you fella. I would have thought you'd recognize the sarcasm in that I've heard you already know the "role" of a drummer, unlike some who bash regardless of the sensitivity which the music calls for. I'm really sorry you got the wrong idea... and accept my apology for any confusion.

Pete... absolutely. We spoke about this on the phone last week. You brought up your scenarious where even when face to face in a room with competing mindsets, two or more people whom you respect can be at odds among themselves. Just like you remembered with me, it was Eric Gale and Paul Allen when on an Ashford & Simpson I had to balance the expectations of both... and heck, I'm the contracted drummer for the date!

... hmmm... forgive me; I seem to remember that such is life in general also!

Thanks Unc! and Like I said in my email, I apologize for anything I may have misunderstood.

Unc, understand me. In such cases, judging is ok because it is a matter of opinion. We all judge every time we listen to a piece of music and decide whether we like it or not. We decide it to be either bad or good as it may or may not line up with our own personal tastes. So there's really no harm in this kind of judging as we all do it. And not just with music, but food music, movies or whatever. We like what we like........ or not.

Neph.

here we go again

Alex Sanguinetti wrote:

boomer wrote:here we go again

Best regards!

Yeah, I know!

I wanted to say the same thing!

:roll"

Oh no we aint! I said my piece and I'm thoo! This site of Pete's has been a totally positive run for me, and I wanna keep it that way.

Sorry gents, wrong judgement call.

Cya!

Sorry, D, my English is not good enough to understand your message.

In any case, great move from Pete to reestablish a forum for all the ones who gathered at Billy's site, and great to have Billy's insights from time to time too.

I would like to repeat something I mentioned in the past: when I started to play drums at 13 (I always liked drums but didn't have a set until then) I liked a lot drumming but it wasn't until I heard Billy (one year later, at 14) that I really enjoyed drumming the way I do now. I mean, listening to him I discovered a whole new universe of alternatives, sounds, etc. that I never heard or imagine before.

I know it has been for a lot of people the same all over the world, so it's nice to be in a "room" here to honour his persona for all the contribution and joy he has gave us.

So, I'm not quite sure what the role of the drum is other than enjoyment to the musicians and hopefully for the public alike.

Best regards!

Alex Sanguinetti wrote:Sorry, D, my English is not good enough to understand your message.

In any case, great move from Pete to reestablish a forum for all the ones who gathered at Billy's site, and great to have Billy's insights from time to time too.

I would like to repeat something I mentioned in the past: when I started to play drums at 13 (I always liked drums but didn't have a set until then) I liked a lot drumming but it wasn't until I heard Billy (one year later, at 14) that I really enjoyed drumming the way I do now. I mean, listening to him I discovered a whole new universe of alternatives, sounds, etc. that I never heard or imagine before.

I know it has been for a lot of people the same all over the world, so it's nice to be in a "room" here to honour his persona for all the contribution and joy he has gave us.

So, I'm not quite sure what the role of the drum is other than enjoyment to the musicians and hopefully for the public alike.

Best regards!

No problem, Alex. It certainly wasn't anything you said. Thanks for your reply to the original question.

Don.

My original response to you Neph was to point out that your 'elusiveness' is now appreciated as being a motivation for the responses of others, rather than what I was expected to answer.

Sorry I missed that. No offense intended.

I ain't trippin, Unc... Water under the bridge, man.

Oh by the way...I was the only one to have confronted the bass player regarding a due reason why he left or had to leave....


Was a personal family matter.

For what this is all worth at this phase of your topic.....my apology


rac

Racman wrote:Oh by the way...I was the only one to have confronted the bass player regarding a due reason why he left or had to leave....
Was a personal family matter.
For what this is all worth at this phase of your topic.....my apology
rac

Interesting Rac... apologies accepted; though I never saw you saying or doing anything improperly! What some sycophants need to recognize is that internet chats are not like sitting across a dining room table (one on one).

Go figure... with all Blessings to you Sir.